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Author Topic: What do you think about this scene?  (Read 17097 times)

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Martin

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What do you think about this scene?
« on: December 01, 2004, 06:24:46 PM »

What do you think about this scene? Do you see some inconsistencies, something that's not as good as it should be, do you think there are defects in this scene?

Please share your opinions, because I'm looking for possible improvements in the scenes of the game that I've recently started. This is a render from the first 'place' in the game, which I've made in Blender.

gfx johnny

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2004, 07:19:54 PM »

I like it  :) I would criticise the materials/shaders. They look a little bit flat. I can see differences only within the diffuse channel; they lack bump maps (especially for the stone path and wood parts) for example. The window's reflection looks a little bit weird. The difference between the trees with lots of leaves and the lawn is too sharp i think, the grass is just a flat plane for the most part. So perhaps you use displacement/bump to create some noise or you could create some 2d flowers or bushes (using opacity masks) or even poly-grass (for 3dsmax there is a good plugin thats free, don't know about blender sadly).

Looking forward to your game, regarding its art it will be nice i'm sure :)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2004, 07:21:33 PM by gfx johnny »
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2004, 07:34:16 PM »

Thanks for the comments, they will really help (you know it's sometimes hard to decide if something you've made yourself is good enough or not).

Sadly Blender's bump map support is not that advanced, but I think that improvements could be made, I'll try to work in that direction.

About the lawn and the tress - there are some pretty good free grass meshes around, but if decide to make the whole lawn 3d, it would take like forever to render with raytracing. But when I make the final renders I will definitely add 3d grass and bushes and might even render the scenes with YafRay, which will make everything look truly realistic, but it will take even longer to render.

I'm shure I could make the graphics look much better.

What about the scene itself? Does it need more objects and stuff? I mean like a can here, a bottle and a shovel there and stuff :)

gfx johnny

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2004, 08:25:34 PM »

Quote
a can here, a bottle and a shovel there and stuff
Yep, good idea. :) I guess more things and details can add to almost every scene. Regarding an adventure, it's a difficult task to add items though... because if they get too much focus, every player will try to take them  ;D  A shovel is perhaps too useful ;)

Otherwise the scene seems to be complete.



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Nihil

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2004, 08:25:24 AM »

I agree, the scene itself looks good, only some more details are missing. And the tree could need some work, it looks  a bit to straight for my taste, and some roots would look good I think.

metamorphium

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2004, 09:44:57 AM »

Hi Martin,

Really nice modelling work.

I'd recommend posting this image at forum places like www.elysiun.com. They are blender oriented and you will get excellent improvement tips from blenderists, who are exceptionally helpfull. I'd just recommend for myself working on texturing. Tree trunks would accept some bump mapping as well as pavement tiles. (It looks very *flat* as it is now) Pillar texture looks not so good. When I saw it for the first time, it looked to me as if you've chosen incorrect mapping type in material window.

One excellent texture resource is here, where you can find almost anything:

http://perso.club-internet.fr/lemog/

You should IMHO also try to incorporate Ambient Occlusion (if it's not already there) which would give much better look to the scene in general. Anyways I am not graphic artist, so feel free to ignore my comments alltogether. :)

Ah and the light seems a bit inconsistent. I was trying to figure out where the SUN is and didn't came to successful conclusion.

Just my 2 cents as an amateur blenderist.

EDIT: Why did you say, bump mapping is not advanced in blender? You can use up to 8 texture channels, so you can have even 7 different bump maps if you are so inclined. :)
« Last Edit: December 02, 2004, 09:48:17 AM by metamorphium »
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2004, 11:43:23 AM »

Thanks for the coments.

My idea of this post was to search for improvements not mainly in the graphics of the scene, but in it's arrangement and its propriety for an adventure game :).

As I said, there is a lot of room for graphics improvements.

Quote
EDIT: Why did you say, bump mapping is not advanced in blender? You can use up to 8 texture channels, so you can have even 7 different bump maps if you are so inclined.

I meant that it is not as advanced as 3ds ;D, but that's self-undersood ;D.





Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2004, 02:51:24 PM »

btw, are the textures from the above link free? I don't understand french and they look too good to be free.

gfx johnny

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2004, 05:59:00 PM »

Quote
..and it's completely free !
It's free, but he got some pictures from friends, so he cannot say for sure if they are all free from rights. This seem to be some kind of coverage though. 
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2004, 07:05:08 PM »

ok, is this better? I've changed many things concerning bump maps. I've tryed to give more volume to stuff, but the bump effect tends to get lost with distance. Detailed bumps can be seen only in close up views.

gfx johnny

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2004, 07:16:38 PM »

Hm, that's different. I think perhaps we should know where do you want to have your focus on? Table & chairs are now out of sight, and the house with entrance seems to be more important. There was a good article about graphics for adventure games from Bill Tiller, using shapes for your picture to set focus.

Regarding the bump maps, i can't see a big difference, but you know that already.The wall on the left looks good.     
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2004, 08:07:19 PM »

These are just random shots, not final renders ;), so the final ones will be focused at certain things.

And to demonstrate that there actually are bump maps, here is a close-up:

gfx johnny

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2004, 09:04:11 PM »

I see. If you use close ups then you should create more details anyway as you suggested before. Bump maps look fine :)
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metamorphium

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2004, 10:21:37 AM »

Hi Martin,

actually those textures are definitely free. There are a few sites where you can find free textures, this is one of them. AFAIK it was used even in several commercial games.

It looks better. Lighting is more understandable. One strange thing though. Why do you have second doors taller than the left one?
Regarding the bump map, there is some sinus feel to it. I'd recommend using more detailed bump map.

here is @ndys bump map application in blender :)

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27749



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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2004, 10:43:53 AM »

Thanks for clearing the texture stuff up. This certainly is one of the best free texture sources around.

I made the second door deliberately taller to give some diversity to the scene, after all it's for a game, not arcitectural development ;D

odnorf

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2004, 10:57:39 AM »

I made the second door deliberately taller to give some diversity to the scene, after all it's for a game, not arcitectural development ;D

In my opinion, one "distortion" (or whatever) in any graphic creation looks like a mistake. Either put more in there or drop this one.
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2004, 03:30:51 PM »

Quote
Either put more in there or drop this one.

You mean I should put more objects in the scene?
Or you mean the doors?

Mnemonic

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2004, 03:35:43 PM »

You mean I should put more objects in the scene?
Or you mean the doors?
odnorf meant "either throw in more of those 'irregularities', if you aim for less realistic design, or don't use them at all". I'm not an artist myself, but I have to agree with him.
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2004, 08:32:17 PM »

I understand now, thanks. I have to rethink some stuff of the whole concept after a few drinks ::beer

deadworm222

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #19 on: December 05, 2004, 05:58:54 PM »

Also, you might want to add more than one light source to make the lightning more natural and the shadows softer. That increases rendering time, though.
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Martin

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2004, 09:38:47 PM »

Yep, 3 lights very close together is a good way of adding more realism to a scene, but that increases rendering time by 3*3 = 9 times with raytracing.

But of course the final renders will have all the possible improvements. O0

Tol

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Re: What do you think about this scene?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2005, 12:36:33 PM »

Hi Martin, hope this isn´t too late to join some comments, althought month after first post :)

Firstly- it looks pretty good, I like the atmosphere achieved with fine color composition and lighting. These are what I would improved:
-those lawn borders are too regular- either make them irregular or add kerbs to prevent grass grow in the sidewalk

-some wooden textures are mapped wrong- It is best seen on wooden stairs-there is neat trick in Blender to correct this- you can rotate object in straight horizontal or vertical position, then press Ctrl+A - Apply size and rotiton. Texture mapping justifies to this position. Then rotate this object back to diagonal position. There is also Texture space rotate tool but I recently can´t remember where it is, never used it before...
And of cource there is always UV mapping, which is the most precise texturing approach and pretty fast in Blender now :)

-dirt up those textures, there are all just too clean and artifical

-shadows are to crisp for outdoor lighting- adjust soft shadows on  Key-light

Other then this, good work, looks really nice  :)
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