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Author Topic: Begining a game  (Read 9049 times)

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Lazarus12

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Begining a game
« on: September 14, 2005, 01:16:12 AM »

Hi,
I  downloaded the wintermute a few days ago and decided to do my first game in it.

When crating a new project I must select template which loads actors, UI and scripts.
Do I have to replace all that stuff or create my own teplate and if so how?

And what is a procedure, I mean what script I need to do first ( Which one is the main  global script)?

Don't know is this a stupid question but I newer done programing in my life so I'm a bit confused.
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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2005, 05:14:47 AM »

Hi Lazarus,
Nice to meet you.  I'm new also.

Quote
Do I have to replace all that stuff or create my own teplate and if so how?
You and I are in the same boat.  I have wondered this myself, but havn't gotten around to find out how it's done yet.  At first, when I was working with actors, I tried to create my own actor set, and put it in the directory where the molly actor was, but I just got a ton of errors and none of my animations would work when I imported it using Add Actor.

I had to go and create it, within the project I was working on for it to work right.  But I think it is a good question, it's seems like there should be an easier way rather than having to create your actors and stuff from scratch each time.

-McCloud
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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2005, 08:21:34 AM »

Hi Lazarus12,

I would recommend going through articles on this pages:

http://wiki.dead-code.org/wakka.php?wakka=Articles&v=15w6
http://wiki.dead-code.org/wakka.php?wakka=Tutorials&v=3oh

There is the article called What's the purpose of all those various scripts in a WME project Also you can go through Scene creation tutorial which is in documentation (just press F1 in Project Manager) which can get you started as well.

Basically I would recommend copy demo WME project to some other test folder and base your test on it more than writing everything from scratch. As you will know more and more about WME, you will understand better what which script does and finally you will find yourself at home. But certainly modifying existing working scenes will help you understand the whole concept of this engine. Try to add more rooms there, change some behaviors, replace actors, add items etc. ;)

Just my 2 cents.
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Mnemonic

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2005, 08:57:13 AM »

You and I are in the same boat.  I have wondered this myself, but havn't gotten around to find out how it's done yet.  At first, when I was working with actors, I tried to create my own actor set, and put it in the directory where the molly actor was, but I just got a ton of errors and none of my animations would work when I imported it using Add Actor.

I had to go and create it, within the project I was working on for it to work right.  But I think it is a good question, it's seems like there should be an easier way rather than having to create your actors and stuff from scratch each time.
Typically you don't need to modify the templates. They serve just like a starting point for your real game objects. So when you need to add a new actor to your game, simply use "Add actor", select the "molly" template and you'll get a working actor in your project. Then start modifying this newly created actor (changing its sprites, font, caption...). No need to chnage the template.

Changing the templates is only advisable if you are going to add tens of similar objects to the game. Then you would create a template with those similarities already included, which would save your time when adding new objects to your project.
But it's *never* necessary to modify the templates if you don't want to.

Example: Although there's no template for a 1024x768 scene, you can still use the 800x600 scene template instead, and once you add the scene to your project, you can change the scene dimensions in SceneEdit from 800x600 to 1024x768. Since you'll be probably adding lots of scenes, you could create a new template for 1024x768 scene, to save your time with tweaking every new scene's dimensions in SceneEdit.

I hope that makes some sense :)
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Lazarus12

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2005, 11:14:35 PM »

Thank you all for fast reply.
I went through the articles, they are a nice start but I think that I will need to experiment a little.
Just finishing my first room in lightwave that will be for testing purpose or maybe a demo (  3d ), so I must prepare for
some scripting.

Yes, manual is good but I would like a nice tutorial for how to setup global things like interface, inventory, intro animation, etc.


Quote
I had to go and create it, within the project I was working on for it to work right.  But I think it is a good question, it's seems like there should be an easier way rather than having to create your actors and stuff from scratch each time.

McCloud, how did you create it within a project, do you mean that you are using the whole project as a template or have a separate templates?




 

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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2005, 05:11:12 AM »

Quote
McCloud, how did you create it within a project, do you mean that you are using the whole project as a template or have a separate templates?

Hey Lazarus,

What I meant by this is that before, when I first started working with Wintermute, I wanted to create my own library of characters before doing anything, so I would just open up the Sprite Editor and load my frames to create my sprite files with out ever starting a project yet.  But when I actually started building my project in WME and imported my sprite files, none of my sprites worked.  I think it had something to do with when you create them and don't have a project to specifiy them in, the links in the .sprite files are not valid.   I only brought this up because I'm new to WME and I didn't want anyone else to make the same mistake.

I found that it's better to create  your sprites in a WME project, so that the linking of files will be correct.  And by "create" I mean that you are just importing your animation images and then creating a sprite file for WME to use that links all your frames together.  You will have to use some other program to create your actual characters and animtation with.   I can't remember the steps that I took to do this because I'm not at home right now.  There is probably several ways that you can do it.  I don't think my method would be the best, but I'm still learning.  I CAN tell you though, that PNG seems to be the best format to use when working with images, or animation frames in your project.  To me, they have good quality, have a small file size, and if you have a program like photoshop, you can do transparencies and png also has an alpha channel.  I am currently making my menus, for example, that are semi-transparent.  I just like the affect, and it's easy to set up if you have the right program.

It your working with 3D Characters, it's a different story, I'm STILL trying to figure out how I can make my own characters in 3D.  I'm starting to think part of my problem is with my video card, it has shared memory and Milkshake keeps freezing up on me.  The important thing to now on this, is that it has to be in Milkshake format.  Other than that, I don't know, and in order to do the 3d Geometry that is required to use your character in WME, it must be exported as a 3D Studio File (.3ds)  I myself, have had problems doing this because most 3d applications that I've used don't export the camera as part of the 3ds file.  This creates a problem because without the camera it can't be setup in WME.  The 3ds files, by the way, are used to match your 2d rendered backgroud.  By doing this, it sets the 3d characters walking planes, blocked objects and way points in 3d space, so that the 3d character matches your 2d rendered back ground perfectly.  I have tried several programs, I'm not sure about lightwave, but if you know 3d I guess it won't be that much of a problem for you if you have to use something else to export 3ds so that it includes the camera.  But 3D is still new to me and takes me sometime to try and find out what some things are.  From what I understand, people here are using 3D Studio and Blender to do this.

Anyway, although i'm a new guy, I hope that some of this information will be helpful to you.

-McCloud
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Lazarus12

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2005, 09:26:37 PM »

Hy McCloud,
Thanks for this useful tips so I can make less mistakes in beginning   :).

If you have freezing problem with milkshape you can try to use misfit model 3d. It is a free software and you can save objects
in ms3d file (milkshape) with whole bone animation.

Some guy had a similar problem with exporting camera to 3ds , I adviced him to use deep exploration.
It supports  lots of object formats.
I just tried that with lightwave, put every different block and walking path in separate layer and exported it with deep exploration
to 3ds. I only discovered that camera needs a little bit of adjustment that can be done in WME (field of view ).

What software do you use for modeling?
maybe there is another solution.

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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2005, 11:29:25 PM »

Hy Lazarus,

Quote
Thanks for this useful tips so I can make less mistakes in beginning   
Just wanted to let you know, I was playing with WME last night, and I found something that might be useful to you.   If you build a new project, like with actors, menu system and such and save it.  You can start a new project and import the files from the other project.  So I guess you could have one project with all your stuff in it and it be like a template.  And then when you start a new project, you can import the files from the so called template, only importing the things you need.  I don't know how far you can go with it, I had just found this out when I was starting a new project and didn't want to build my actor from scratch, so I tried importing the folder for an actor from a different project and it worked.  Then I tried importing a menu system I created from another project and it worked, so it looks like you don't really need templates, you can take something from other projects you've already done.  I havn't it tried it with everything, but it seems to work.

Quote
If you have freezing problem with milkshape you can try to use misfit model 3d. It is a free software and you can save objects
in ms3d file (milkshape) with whole bone animation.
Thanks, I'll definately try that!

Quote
Some guy had a similar problem with exporting camera to 3ds , I adviced him to use deep exploration.
It supports  lots of object formats.
I just tried that with lightwave, put every different block and walking path in separate layer and exported it with deep exploration
to 3ds. I only discovered that camera needs a little bit of adjustment that can be done in WME (field of view ).

I'm still not sure what Deep Exploration is.  Is it like a program that fixes 3ds files so that a camera is exported?

Quote
What software do you use for modeling?
maybe there is another solution.
Well, the thing is, I'm not very skilled at 3d.  I'm just kind of learning WME right now and creating mini test games as a kind of hobbie because I love adventure games and a love programming. Since I'm a one man band right now, and don't have any intentions of creating a real game right now, I'm a one man band, so I had to find an easy to use 3d program that I could use to put something together that would look nice, but something that was easy to use.  I found something, the only problem is the 3ds export doesn't include the camera, and I'm not sure if it includes the lights either.  The program that I've found to be the best for me is CyberMotion.  It can produce nice renders and I can put together a scene in very little time.  But because I was wanting to experiment with doing the 3d Character, I've tried a number of other programs.  So far, I havn't found anything, I've read on these forums that you can use Cinema 4D, which I managed to get.  But I've tried the 3ds export with it and it doesn't seem to save the camera either.  I'd prefer to stay with CyberMotion for it's ease of use and it's not too expensive.  Any suggestions you have.  Please let me know.  Thanks

-McCloud




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Lazarus12

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2005, 10:16:42 PM »

Hy McCloud,

This thing about importing files from another project is realy great. If I understod you correctly I just need to select import folder
from another project for actors, scenes, interface and so on. WME autmaticly saves it in the current project folder.
Well I must try that, it is good idea to have separate project for templates in which you can mess with it and then just import
finished work.

Thanks for this one.

Quote
I'm still not sure what Deep Exploration is.  Is it like a program that fixes 3ds files so that a camera is exported?

It is actually something like ACDsee is for photos but for 3d objects and scenes.
3D viewer for different object formats, you can render files in it ( direct x and open GL renderer),
and  export files to another 3d format. Must have if you working with many different 3d programs.

Quote
Well, the thing is, I'm not very skilled at 3d.  I'm just kind of learning WME right now and creating mini test games as a kind of hobbie because I love adventure games and a love programming. Since I'm a one man band right now, and don't have any intentions of creating a real game right now, I'm a one man band, so I had to find an easy to use 3d program that I could use to put something together that would look nice, but something that was easy to use.  I found something, the only problem is the 3ds export doesn't include the camera, and I'm not sure if it includes the lights either.  The program that I've found to be the best for me is CyberMotion.  It can produce nice renders and I can put together a scene in very little time.  But because I was wanting to experiment with doing the 3d Character, I've tried a number of other programs.  So far, I havn't found anything, I've read on these forums that you can use Cinema 4D, which I managed to get.  But I've tried the 3ds export with it and it doesn't seem to save the camera either.  I'd prefer to stay with CyberMotion for it's ease of use and it's not too expensive.  Any suggestions you have.  Please let me know.  Thanks

Well, I haven't heard of CyberMotion, but if you have troubles with exporting  Cinema 4D to Max post that Cinema file here
and I'll try to convert it with deep exploration. Don't forget to create lights an cameras.

I have posted some suggestions on your topic about another applications.
You really need to experiment for yourself and discover which one suits you most.
It's all about that.

I started whith pov-ray, anim8or, moray and wings 3d and I realy loved them.
Now lightwave is my No1. tool.
I Tried Max and maya but didn't liked them as lightwave.
This is just matter of taste.

Post me that file so we can fix it.

By.


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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2005, 01:02:32 AM »

Quote
Well, I haven't heard of CyberMotion, but if you have troubles with exporting  Cinema 4D to Max post that Cinema file here
and I'll try to convert it with deep exploration. Don't forget to create lights an cameras.

Ok, that would be great, but I can't figure out how to post the file here.  And for some reason I can't port my existing CyberMotion project to Cinema.  It loads up blank.  Could you look at the CyberMotion one and see if there is something wrong with it instead.  I can export a 3ds file for you.

Thanks
-Jeremy
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Lazarus12

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2005, 11:57:30 PM »

I think you need to have a host on the net for posting files,
but you can send it on my mail.

Quote
And for some reason I can't port my existing CyberMotion project to Cinema.  It loads up blank.

I've been on Cybermotion home site and the only thing I can figure it out is that you can't export to
another format if you didn't register it.

Quote
FROM CYBERMOTION DOWNLOAD PAGE:
CyberMotion is distributed as shareware. This means you can download a full version of CyberMotion including the complete online manual and test it thoroughly. If you find the program fits to your demands you can purchase a registration key to unlock the shareware version and get rid of the CyberMotion-watermark, which is copied in every rendered picture, and to enable the project export.

Are you using shareware version?

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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2005, 02:26:10 AM »

Quote
I've been on Cybermotion home site and the only thing I can figure it out is that you can't export to another format if you didn't register it.

I bet that's it.  I should have thought of that.  I have a serial, but it wasn't ever registered.  That would make since because I can save the 3ds files and open the same 3ds files in Cybermotion and their fine.  But with Deep Exploration, it recognizes all the names, but doesn't import any models or geometry, just like in Cinema. 

I downloaded deep exploration, and I love it by the way.  It makes it 100 times easier to see what some models look like rather than opening them up one at a time in some 3d prog.

I guess I'll contact Cybermotion and see if it can do what I need it to do.  I'll also ask them, if with the registered version if it will import the textures to some of these 3ds models, because now that I have Deep Exploration, I've noticed that alot of these 3ds files DO have textures in them already and it's been hell to try and add textures to them again.  So maybe it's a limitation because the product is not registered.  I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for your help.
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Lazarus12

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2005, 07:48:02 PM »

OK, let me know if it worked.
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McCloud

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Re: Begining a game
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2005, 04:59:17 AM »

Just for the record, for anyone else looking for a 3d rendering software to use with Wintermute, I contacted Cybermotion about the exports and here is what they replied.

Quote
"wait 1 or two weeks until CyberMotion v.11.0 is released. It has revised 3ds import and export functions that will support
uv-textures and multiple materials. Lights are converted too but the camera adjustments are ignored. Object names have the
typically 3ds limitations of 10 characters. Objects are restricted to a maximum of 64000 points or facets in 3ds.
 
Regards,
Reinhard Epp"

So, it looks like in a future update, more will be supported for the 3ds export but will not export the camera.


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