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Author Topic: Sales of adventure games  (Read 12590 times)

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Roman Navratil

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Sales of adventure games
« on: September 30, 2007, 02:21:15 PM »

Hi there,

I'd like to ask you , if you dont know (by chance) the selling numbers of adventure games (worldwide would be the best). I've tried to search for them, but I have not been successful. I know for example, that Black mirror has something around 300 000 world-wide sold copies, and i had also heard, that Runaway (1) has something around 400 000 only in France! What about you, do you know some sales of adventure games yourselves?

And one other thing, im quite interested, if you guys (or women), do not know, how much % from one sold copy of a game sees the developer. Heard something about 20%...?

What do you think?

metamorphium

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2007, 02:31:19 PM »

this depends on the deal. Basically if you have advance money, you get less. You can get AFAIK from 0.5cents per box up to 60% per copy if you offer the finished game. Ad, sales numbers it's really hard to tell. I don't trust the numbers being thrown as they are usually a bit biased and the real sales number are top secret of their respective publishers.

Planning to sell Until I'm gone? ;)
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Daniel

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2007, 06:00:56 PM »

Planning to sell Until I'm gone? ;)
I thought the same thing  ;)

More to the point though, 300,000 sold copies at full-price is a huge success. Hey, even 100,000 copies is a mildly optimistic scenario. There are many games out there selling a lot less than that and not only that they don't make any profit at all - they even lose money!
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SiriusCG

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2007, 06:14:40 PM »

Quote
Hey, even 100,000 copies is a mildly optimistic scenario.

Absolutely. And, if you consider self-publishing, via download and using Paypal or similar, it's not an unrealistic number. If you have a good game, people will play... and buy...

The bottom line for marketing success, don't neglect your business and marketing model to the detriment of your game...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 06:16:13 PM by SiriusCG »
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Roman Navratil

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2007, 07:10:02 PM »

this depends on the deal. Basically if you have advance money, you get less. You can get AFAIK from 0.5cents per box up to 60% per copy if you offer the finished game. Ad, sales numbers it's really hard to tell. I don't trust the numbers being thrown as they are usually a bit biased and the real sales number are top secret of their respective publishers.

Planning to sell Until I'm gone? ;)

He, no, not planning to sell UIG, im just quite curious about it, and it is really hard to find, so im trying to ask some adventure fans, if they dont know a little bit about it.

With "0.5cents" you mean what concretely, probably a type error, i dont think (hope) that any publisher would be so " stingy" to pass you only 0.5= 1/2 US CENTS for one sold copy...

And the numbers you are talking about, "up to 60%"... - Do you mean 60% from the total price of one sold copy or from the money YOUR PUBLISHER gets from one sold copy...? Because also the shop takes something, then theres VAT (DPH for czech) and publisher sees from one sold copy, lets say, i dont know, about 65%... If the game price is 30$, then the publisher sees (lets say) only about 19.5 dollars. So do you mean, that your part ("up to 60%") comes from the 30$ or from the 19.5$...

Roman Navratil

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2007, 07:16:05 PM »

Planning to sell Until I'm gone? ;)
I thought the same thing  ;)

More to the point though, 300,000 sold copies at full-price is a huge success. Hey, even 100,000 copies is a mildly optimistic scenario. There are many games out there selling a lot less than that and not only that they don't make any profit at all - they even lose money!


I know, so dont you know some concrete numbers?

BTW, Im talking here only about "AAA" adventure projects, no indies with 320*260 resolution or casual games. I hope you got it from the first post, and that there is no mistunderstanding here. I mean only "BIG" adventure projects.

metamorphium

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2007, 07:26:03 PM »

roamn, I tried to write it perfectly clear. 0,5 cents scenario is for the game, when you recieved advance payment. It's almost equal to flat fee and I give it as a bottom range where you
can find yourself.

Other than that there's fixed price for the copy and you get the percents from it. So if I got 60% per copy for the game which in the contract
costed 20USD then I get 12USD per sold copy. It's not the shop price! It's the price you set with the publisher and is lower than the price
you'll see your game in the shops.

Again, I don't think anyone gives you direct numbers as those who know already signed NDA's and such where it's strictly prohibited to speak about this publicly. So you can take some estimates but if your game sold 300.000 copies, you'll be rich. :)
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Alex ASP

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2007, 10:47:28 AM »

It also depends on what kind of deal you make with publishers. Can't speak for the whole world but here at Russia you can sell the adventure to the publisher and get somewhere about 100K$ with no royalties (no percents from each copy of game) and this practice is common here especially for the young devteams. As for prices, we usually have a perCD basis. The game in store is about 4$ per disc. Stores buy games from publishers for about 2$ per disc. And I really doubt that developers get more then 1$ per disc (thats why our games are usually released in 2CD even if they can be easilly placed on 1CD).

« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 10:56:20 AM by Alex ASP »
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atm_deev

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2007, 01:06:18 PM »

0.10$ - is for beginners commands developers (RUSSIA).
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Alex ASP

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2007, 09:53:22 AM »

You mean, a fixed sum of $ plus 0.1$ royalties per game? Can't believe that only 0.1$ per game - this way it is simply not profitable for a developer, cause with 100 000 copies sold you'll have only 10K$
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Roman Navratil

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #10 on: October 05, 2007, 10:07:52 PM »

roamn, I tried to write it perfectly clear. 0,5 cents scenario is for the game, when you recieved advance payment. It's almost equal to flat fee and I give it as a bottom range where you
can find yourself.

Well then it is really "BAD" if you get only about 0.005 dolars for one sold copy + The advence money, ok, but still 0.005 for one copy is an ammount which is  ridiculous.

Other than that there's fixed price for the copy and you get the percents from it. So if I got 60% per copy for the game which in the contract
costed 20USD then I get 12USD per sold copy. It's not the shop price! It's the price you set with the publisher and is lower than the price
you'll see your game in the shops.

BTW if we are talking about his, how many % off the total sells (in $) sees the publisher?

If we have a game, which is in the shop for, lets say, 30 dollars. How many dollars sees the publisher?

Because from 30 dollars, theres something, which takes the "VAT" (DPH in czech), this could be ( europe average) +- about 20%?... (so suddenly you are only on 24$. Now the local "distributor" wants to see something , lets say he wants 20%, so you are on 19,2$ now.
And also the shop wants something..., lets say he wants again  20%...? So, +-, you are only on 15$... Is this what the publiehrs sees?

Game price in shop= 30$
VAT (DPH in czech)= 30$-20%= 24$
Local distributor= 24$-22%= 18,72$
Shop taking = 18,72$-20%= 15$

The publisher sees 15$ from one sold copy which is in the shop for 30$ (so only 50%...?)

Roman Navratil

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2007, 10:34:41 PM »

It also depends on what kind of deal you make with publishers. Can't speak for the whole world but here at Russia you can sell the adventure to the publisher and get somewhere about 100K$ with no royalties (no percents from each copy of game) and this practice is common here especially for the young devteams. As for prices, we usually have a perCD basis. The game in store is about 4$ per disc. Stores buy games from publishers for about 2$ per disc. And I really doubt that developers get more then 1$ per disc (thats why our games are usually released in 2CD even if they can be easilly placed on 1CD).

Roman Navratil

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2007, 10:39:47 PM »

You mean, a fixed sum of $ plus 0.1$ royalties per game? Can't believe that only 0.1$ per game - this way it is simply not profitable for a developer, cause with 100 000 copies sold you'll have only 10K$

It sounds horrible, but metamorphium said even something about 0.005$ for one sold copy... so if it is true, then god save the poor developers!

CMK2901

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2007, 01:01:10 AM »

Or self-publish.  If you can get a team together that doesn't expect to be paid in advance, then it's perfectly possible that you finish a game and have all the rights to it - no publisher involved.

Of course, this is a much riskier process.  But some companies do it, and if the game's a success, there's no one to answer to, and the profits are yours.  It sounds worth the risk to me.
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sychron

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Re: Sales of adventure games
« Reply #14 on: October 06, 2007, 03:09:49 AM »

BTW ... roamn ... your method to deduct the VAT is wrong ...


If you have 20% VAT, then the shop price is 100% price + 20% VAT, so you cannot simply deduct 20%.

Shop Price = 30$ = 120%

So if 120% are 30$,
then 100% are 30/120*100 = 25$.

Also, the deducting order is wrong.

The shops have to sell it including VAT, so this one ist last.
Then comes the shops margin.

The publisher sets a reseller price, and everything above this reseller price goes to the shop.
Remember that only the last one in the chain has to pay VAT, so you pay VAT to the shop, who manages it. The shop gets the product without VAT.

Publishers have to take quite a big share of the remainder, for they have to pay a lot of things, like:
- producing the medium
- designing and producing the packaging
- free giveaway copies for press and other reviews
- advertisement in general

so ... normaly you build it up like this:

Say, the designer takes 2000$ for designing and printing the package.
You plan on releasing 1000 copies, so every copy is $2 for packaging alone.
The CD has to be produced, at 1000 Copies, you pay around 1$ per copy + about 300 for the glass master. So every CD is 1,3 $ in production
Then, you need a handbook, however short it may be. Say, we do four pages, for a design and printing price of about 400 $. That's another 0,4$ per copy.

So after producing our Game, we have costs of about 3,7$ per game, make it 4 for shipping, shrink-wrapping etc.

Next, the publisher does advertisement in different magazines, at least, if he knows his job. So he spends another 5000 $ on ads etc. This is another $5 per cd.

Next up are free copies. Free copies do not generate income for the publisher, so they have to be made up with the other copies. Say, our publisher plans on giving away 50 copies, then he can only sell 950 copies. We hat 9$ per cd so far, now we give away 50 copies, which makes us "loose" 450$, or 0,45$ per cd.
So the prise rided to 9,45$ without any profit by now. Make it 10 for handling etc.

Next up is the publishers and the producers profit.
If the producer got a fixed sum, make it 2000$, you have to divide this by 950 copies remaining, which brings us to about 2,1$ per copy. If the producer get additional pay per copy, add it here. Say, he gets 40c per copy, then we have 2,5 $ per copy which doesn't go to the publisher.

So our copy is at 12,5$ now, still without profit for the publisher.
The publisher has to run his business, pay it's employees etc, so he adds another 3$ for his fixed costs (the price per cd is "variable costs").

So, if he sets the reseller price to 22$, which means he earns 6,5$ per copy.

The Shop adds another 3$ for his own profit, bringing us to 25$.
Now include the VAT and there are the 30$ you set as example.

I'm not good at explaining this stuff in english ... hope you understand.


« Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 03:33:58 AM by sychron »
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