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[Lazarus12]

There  is also Yafray (Yet Another Free Raytracer), which is more or less on the same level as Povray (in field of GI probably better), also completely free and also script based,  but you can model, texture and animate  in Blender and render scene with Yafray from Blender directly

See www.yafray.org

Yes, you are right, I forgot about that. It can be ran directly from  blender as I remeber which is a great thing.

And I can also recommend wings 3d but only for modeling purposes. It is very easy to learn.

Hope this helps.

[Tol]

See www.yafray.org


Yes, you are right, I forgot about that. It can be ran directly from  blender as I remeber which is a great thing.

And I can also recommend wings 3d but only for modeling purposes. It is very easy to learn.

Hope this helps.

After vertex/edge/face selection modes, loopcut tools, extrude along normal,LSCM UV unwraping, widgeds  and modifiers system  (upcomin 2.38) integration into Blender there is little Wings3D can offer what Blender can´t and UI is quite similar (Blender has all functions accesible via menu trees, as Wings has), so for beginner I would recommend to strart straight with Blender, in area of modelling it is more or less same learning curve, imho.  And with upcoming superior animation tools this little soft take over world domination  for sure   (and yes, I AM Blender fanatic, so in no way you can take me seriously )

But Wings3D is great modeling soft indeed, I used it too, when Blender lacked in some polygon modeling areas...

[Lazarus12]

and yes, I AM Blender fanatic, so in no way you can take me seriously

Well, I wont  . But McCloud said that he is begginer so I think wings 3d can give him a little push (in a terms of modeling) because it's simply little program.

Must admit that I didn't liked blender when I was starting with 3d and that was just because it's interface, on the other hand it's
most powerfull free 3d piece of software.

[gfxmachine]

You see, matter of opinions. To me that Wings3d is so much powerful than blender in one only area: modelling   ...which is the area only covered by Wings, btw.
(oh, and you don't have smooth creases in Blender (smooth groups in Max), which is essential for games. But that is only a detail, and indeed, not the big thing. )

I have worked with wings for years at my job.

and...is not that is inferior to Blender in animation...It is that Wings3d simply just does not animate, neither really render. Could not be a competitor, then...But sorry, the speed in modelling and the flexibility it has is close to none.

Btw, I use both, but Blender only for level editing and (specially) for character animation.

And XSI. And Max( A lot.)

[McCloud]

Thanks everyone!  I'm still testing out other programs.  I friend managed to get a copy of Cinema 4D which I hear can export 3ds with cameras, lights and stuff.  But I havn't been able to get it to see the camera.  Still working on it, I thought of maybe just trying 3d Studio but I'm sure it wouldn't be any easier than Blender.  I like Cimema 4Ds interface though.  it's seems it's easy enough to use and it imported the 3d Character Scene from the demo with now problem, it recognized the cameras to, but I still can't seem to get it to export the cams yet.  I've read somewhere in the forum that it could be done, but sometimes has bugs.  But we'll see.

Thanks

[Tol]

You see, matter of opinions. To me that Wings3d is so much powerful than blender in one only area: modelling   ...which is the area only covered by Wings, btw.

That is why I wrote, that I am Blender fanatic (and therefore my opinion in this matter isn´t to take very seriously) - it makes my everyday bread for last few years, and I simply love this piece of soft more and more with every new release:D 
Wings is great, I loved it and it has still more and better tools for polygonal modeling then Blender indeed. But in my opinion and in my workflow it doesn´t offer me as much advantages to Blender to use it anymore...

(oh, and you don't have smooth creases in Blender (smooth groups in Max), which is essential for games. But that is only a detail, and indeed, not the big thing. )

True and  there are surely even  more serious disadvantages in Blender then this, but it is only matter of time:)

and...is not that is inferior to Blender in animation...It is that Wings3d simply just does not animate, neither really render. Could not be a competitor, then...But sorry, the speed in modelling and the flexibility it has is close to none.

I didn´t wrote this (that Wings is inferior in animation), resp. I didn´t meant this, If it made this impression, I apologise- my english is little crappy . I wrote in general terms, not due to Wings,  and I wasn´t too serious (that I wrote, didn´t I ? )    I generaly  don´t like comparison of any aplications on certain level  and there can´t be competiton between Blender and Wings, only symbiosis:)

On the other hand-  in my opinion  in the long shot it is  more easy way for beginner to learn aplication that covers not only modeling, but also other areas (materials, lighting, render...) as their first 3D soft, then learn to model in Wings (Modo, Nendo- you name it) and then texture it and render it in other soft with different UI- this way you learn two aplications instead one When you are experienced enough, then it´s of course normal to  use 3, 4 softs (as you do)

I just think, that it is not the best option to learn aplication focused on modeling only, like Wings, Modo ect. as first 3D aplication ever. I would recommend rather Blender or Maya PLE or Cinema 6 as first beginner´s choice to learn(hmm, has Max  some learning edition for free too?)

Must admit that I didn't liked blender when I was starting with 3d and that was just because it's interface, on the other hand it's
most powerfull free 3d piece of software.

Many people have this impression about interface,  before 2.30 it was common critique toward Blender.  It is true, that older versions weren´t very user friendly towards Blender beginners (well, I started with 1.73, and it wasn´t friendly at all ), but with 2.30 there were great changes in UI (which I hate, cause most of tutorials I wrote became obsolete ), all tools are accesible via menus, we have widgets (manipulators) now a  you can also reorganize your workplace as you want as well as some aspect canvas manipulation and object selection is redefinable (is such a word in english?  ) It is

[gfxmachine]

Thanks everyone!  I'm still testing out other programs

Google for Daz Studio. Is free, and seems easy for do rendered scenes.
yet though, I don't see it as a solution, besides they ask you for email address...you could expect quite some spam later on your email, or it happened with other gifst like this before in other companies...

Cinema 4d would be simply ideal for you. maybe you can grab an old version (beware the limit of 640x480 on some of the given free ones) buying an old magazine issue of Digit magazine or some like it. If you can buy the today's version, lucky you! is a really good tool. Just not my cup of cofee, but for the purpose, rocks.

That is why I wrote, that I am Blender fanatic (and therefore my opinion in this matter isn´t to take very seriously)

I didn't
But whenever I hear "blender rocks", I must shout the same bout wings.
You know, the mid-thirties crisis...

- it makes my everyday bread for last few years,

Does it makes chocolate biscuits too?

and I simply love this piece of soft more and more with every new release:D 

I like it too; I use it for several of my animations.

Wings is great, I loved it and it has still more and better tools for polygonal modeling then Blender indeed. But in my opinion and in my workflow it doesn´t offer me as much advantages to Blender to use it anymore...

I could tell you more than one (the winged edge has many advantages in quick modelling (gollum in LOTR was modeled using Mirai, whic is very similar to Wings (well, must be said changing the sentence order; imho Wings3d is a much improved Nendo )))  ...but also, Wings3d is one of those tools with so much depth in its only area , that many of its advantages are discovered -with surprise-  from old features even after years of modelling with it. the fact is I see I was quicker than my friends at the company I was before now, they using max and Maya. And they aren't slow; very good artists. Imho it has some ways pretty unknown for the big masses max is adding modelling features of Mirai style all the time, with every version, orion Flame plugin, Meshtools, etc, etc... Many packages are doing the same. Silo, Modo, etc. Even Blender did (even there's a try to have the we structure for its advantages: I have seen quite liitle of the we power put into it yet. )

Anyway, a secret: I'd model anything with both Blender , metasequoia, Wings, Max... Moving vertices and extruding faces(yeah, cutting and <insert here every modelling possibility>) is allowed today by any tool, and is all which counts...
One tends to feel more confortable with one ui and feature set than another, life is so.

[btw (i allways post with humoristic mode activated, in case there's some lost reader....   )]

(oh, and you don't have smooth creases in Blender (smooth groups in Max), which is essential for games. But that is only a detail, and indeed, not the big thing. )

True and  there are surely even  more serious disadvantages in Blender then this, but it is only matter of time:)

heard that allways at blender forums...hehe, beware, I'm told the other tools also evolve
That was one another joke of yours truly. Sorry. The coffee is making me this...

BTW, I wasn't very cool saying that -even included in my long permanent joke-   you can actually do the work around of split (Y key) , but that often is no cool for game engines. besides it wont show.

Anim8or(freeware) has a threshold angle for it. Like Metasequoia LE (free for non coemercial use). But wont allow set the exact edge where you want the crease. Wings has imho the fastest and more powerful selection system out there, imho.This allows even faster setting of hard edges and export that as vertex normals info in the OBJ or whatever the format file(if format support).

Blender as a level editor, I miss the lack of Lightmaps, and several UV mapping channels. But again, no probs in Wintermute, is not required as is rendered scenery. But for every real time 3d game out there...For wintermute, would be ideal if someone could make work that plugin of Milkshape animation -I tried the other day- and only thing missed -besides weights in every ms3d file- could be the smooth creasing.As actually the character is indeed reatime 3d.

I didn´t wrote this (that Wings is inferior in animation), resp. I didn´t meant this, If it made this impression, I apologise- my english is little crappy . I wrote in general terms, not due to Wings,  and I wasn´t too serious (that I wrote, didn´t I ? )

I'm never.... unless we speak about money, you know, one have feelings

  I generaly  don´t like comparison of any aplications on certain level  and there can´t be competiton between Blender and Wings, only symbiosis:)

That's the general line...Wings3d author...i see it has not many wishes of making it more than a freaking good modeller..at start I was unhappy with that, but as soon as realized in everyjob is used another tool for animation, usually the expensive package where all is integrated (and they usually let u use whatever the heck you prefer to push those vertices ) ...and as also realized that Blender had become then a tool not so hard to learn at before (i tried to enojoy it when 1.x, but was only on 2.28 when saw I could animate characters with it. probably as also by then I was quite experiences with many other 3d tools, and had animated in others.)

There are several wingers that do actually animate and render with Blender
A few, but not so much blenderheads that prefer to model with Wings , but that's more rare.

On the other hand-  in my opinion  in the long shot it is  more easy way for beginner to learn aplication that covers not only modeling, but also other areas (materials, lighting, render...)

In that one I dunno if I can agree...3d is a universe that eats you if you pretend to do it all at start...But yep, if all is started in a low level, yes. That's what imho did very well Steve with his Anim8or tool. Imho is the best for learning fast and painlessly.  The fact is that Blender is overal much more powerful. (but trust me, the smooth groups and its visualizing  is really a pain not to have...)

as their first 3D soft, then learn to model in Wings (Modo, Nendo- you name it) and then texture it and render it in other soft with different UI- this way you learn two aplications instead one When you are experienced enough, then it´s of course normal to  use 3, 4 softs (as you do)

It gives you a more open view of 3d, and imho asimilate better the concept of 3d. then you don't matter where they put u the buttons. that's the reason why i could learn blender in my "return" to it, with practically no consult on the manual.

I just think, that it is not the best option to learn aplication focused on modeling only, like Wings, Modo ect. as first 3D aplication ever. I would recommend rather Blender or Maya PLE or Cinema 6 as first beginner´s choice to learn(hmm, has Max  some learning edition for free too?)

Gmax. Yup. hehe, mentione me a 3d tool and...Well, used plenty.  My sadness is I haven't had in my hands a Lightwave, and thats a freaking modelling jewel, for what I have seen...well, once could use a demo and saw it for long in one of those meetings...I guessed that's real power in modelling.

gmax is more or less a very limited Max 4.2. So, by no means is anymore a taste of Max...it wasn't even when released..it hasn't really been updated, not at the pace andcontinuity of its competitors Softimage XSI and Maya(PLE)
max 7 is so much better than Gmax that would not know where to start explaining...

Imho Cinema is an ideal tool for this of Wintermute -in case its 3ds exporter works well. is easy and the quality given by its renderer is....AMAZING.  Even more, several magazines issues gave away long ago Cinema 4d 5 and 6. Limited versions, I think 6 was limited to 640x480, not sure. But a heck of a good tool, and 3d formats weren't removed.
Imho is slower for modelling than Blender , Wings, Metasequoia, or Max. but an overal freaking good thing.And *very* quick rendering.Quite cheaper than the others, but somewhat near 700$ , if I remember well..It counts with an addon of one of the best hair rendering  systems out there...surely not included in the bundle.

Must admit that I didn't liked blender when I was starting with 3d and that was just because it's interface, on the other hand it's
most powerfull free 3d piece of software.

As an overall piece, yes, absolutely agree. Comparing areas with tools that specialize in those areas...No, by no means. Easy to explain this... Ultimate unwrap  -comercial (true, not free)- is imho better for uv mapping. After all, it's years of development only doing that "tiny" thing... Wings3d being focused on modelling, keeps needing improve only in that area, that's good for developing that area.
While we have now in Blender a pair of solutions for painting "alla Zbrush" , I can tell you (I'm a zbrush registered user)  how much better is zbrush than that Blender feature. See, all are specialized tools (curiously named so at CgTalk) , that has an advantage on advanced 3d needs.
On the dark side, loads of problems come with imports, and usually every company out there needs an all around solution, the integration tool. Imho it could be Blender, max, XSI, Maya, Lightwave. But real time 3d games companies stay with max usually, or Maya, and film, etc, Maya, Lightwave, xsi.

Many people have this impression about interface,  before 2.30 it was common critique toward Blender

.

I was even a betatester for 2 plugins for blender before 2.30, and Imho was already quite easy for a 3d user of othe rpackages. I didn't really  dedicate my self to learn it.. I guess now is quite easier to learn it. the widgets lack was a real show stopper for newbies, or 3d users from other tools. Not me, Wings hasn't got it. Indeed, I use it all through right clik menu and hotkeys. As often in Blender.

  It is true, that older versions weren´t very user friendly towards Blender beginners (well, I started with 1.73, and it wasn´t friendly at all ),

I used to try previous ones, though only 1.8x I think, allowed me to make something, and as I said, only 2.28c grabbed really my attention as an useful tool.

but with 2.30 there were great changes in UI (which I hate, cause most of tutorials I wrote became obsolete ),

How disgusting...!    let's make it hard to use again, all those tutorials...

all tools are accesible via menus, we have widgets (manipulators) now a  you can also reorganize your workplace as you want as well as some aspect canvas manipulation and object selection is redefinable (is such a word in english?  ) It is

I knew, I knew...and modifiers...and a kind of outliner/scene graph, how each call it (every package-comunity use its terms...) similar in some points to Maya's, XSI or Max ones...(and modifiers, lol, that's Max stuff...   )

is not evil as some old blender uses think... It was needed long ago, as well as a joint pinning feature (wel, there was allways the empties or null bones weirdhat trick, but as allways, not only for newbie masses, speed is a part to consider when we speak about functionality... and in 3d, imho, is the most important one, not only for jobs, but also for concentrate better and be happier... )

I myself am specially interested in the animation revamp. Long asked -by me among others- like rotation limits in IK, a better IK, the empties solvers+copy rotation trick really made quicker to set, also the ability of handling empties and objects in pose mode, helps a lot there...A lot, a lot of stuff is going to be seen in the next release, in character animation, my main interest of allways in Blender.

The x exporter from Jox and Ben do work like charm, i tested in several engines, even with weights exportation, and full anim etc. And that allows to exprot for a majority of indy gaming engines out there...so, all good news...

I use as many tools as I am allowed to at every project. Of course, in case *really* needed. I'd use MS Paint(nice tool btw, but simple as heck) for making my 2d if really if it had some sense

[Lazarus12]

My sadness is I haven't had in my hands a Lightwave, and thats a freaking modelling jewel, for what I have seen...well, once could use a demo and saw it for long in one of those meetings...I guessed that's real power in modelling.

I am using lightwave and must agree with you, it's a realy speed enhancer in a terms of modeling.
I also tried modo which is very similar to lightwave, even it's native format is .lwo and it supports edge modeling and weighting
which lightwave doesnt. But it is only modeling tool. Maybe they will implement renderer in it. 

As an overall piece, yes, absolutely agree. Comparing areas with tools that specialize in those areas...No, by no means. Easy to explain this... Ultimate unwrap  -comercial (true, not free)- is imho better for uv mapping. After all, it's years of development only doing that "tiny" thing... Wings3d being focused on modelling, keeps needing improve only in that area, that's good for developing that area.
While we have now in Blender a pair of solutions for painting "alla Zbrush" , I can tell you (I'm a zbrush registered user)  how much better is zbrush than that Blender feature. See, all are specialized tools (curiously named so at CgTalk) , that has an advantage on advanced 3d needs.
On the dark side, loads of problems come with imports, and usually every company out there needs an all around solution, the integration tool. Imho it could be Blender, max, XSI, Maya, Lightwave. But real time 3d games companies stay with max usually, or Maya, and film, etc, Maya, Lightwave, xsi.

Yes, I was meaning blender as a whole package (modeling, rendering and animating).
Btw. I am using Deep UV, is ultimate unwrap better?
I usually create morph tragets of my objects and then I flatten them, so I can use planar projection.
And then I just merge them into continuous UV map.
It works for me but there must be an easier way.

[Tol]

Does it makes chocolate biscuits too?

Not yet, but I heard somewhere that there is sequencer plugin in development that will be able to do such things 

Anim8or(freeware) has a threshold angle for it.

I don´t make realtime so I don´t know, if this is of any use for this, but there is AutoSmooth feature, which seems to do something like this:)

In that one I dunno if I can agree...3d is a universe that eats you if you pretend to do it all at start...

I agree, on the other hand I think it is better for many people to have their first lighted and textured "Hello world" scene soon to stay motivated into further exploring of 3D world, especially if they do it just for fun and as hobby:)

Imho Cinema is an ideal tool for this of Wintermute -in case its 3ds exporter works well. is easy and the quality given by its renderer is....AMAZING.  Even more, several magazines issues gave away long ago Cinema 4d 5 and 6. Limited versions, I think 6 was limited to 640x480, not sure. But a heck of a good tool, and 3d formats weren't removed.

Yes and you can for relatively small amout of money buy "upgrade" to full size rendering. Imho great choice where to start too

Nice to talking with you, I enjoyed conversation whith someone experienced in this fiels. It gave me  new insights, thank you

[McCloud]

Wow, can you imagine my shock to come back and see that so much had been posted in one day?  Anyway, I'm trying out Cinema 4D, it doesn't look so hard to use for a newbie.  I've been playing with it some, but still can't figure out why I can't export the camera.  But I'll continue to try, I hear that it can be down with this program.

Out of all the programs that have been talked about, I'm surprised that the one that I'm using now, CyberMotion, was never mentioned.  I think it's great!  It's very easy to use too, but perhaps this is more of a newbie type program or maybe it's just not well known. Too bad it doesn't export camera in 3ds files.  It would have been perfect for me.   We'll see how far Cinema 4D gets.

-McCloud

[gfxmachine]

@ mccloud

Wow, can you imagine my shock to come back and see that so much had been posted in one

am a bit of a posting machine wherever I go. At least, if I remember to come back

day?  Anyway, I'm trying out Cinema 4D, it doesn't look so hard to use for a newbie.  I've been playing with it some, but still can't figure out why I can't export the camera.  But I'll continue to try, I hear that it can be down with this program.

I guess Cinema4d demo is not crippled in 3ds export. Do export it and check with a converter or whatever, that it exports camera an lights, if you can (lol, deep exploration 30 days demo will allow you that, download at right hemisphere. Or...perhaps Cambo(ideasman) 3ds importer will allow to check in Blender, dunno. he made an update recently, I think , on that one.  )

Out of all the programs that have been talked about, I'm surprised that the one that I'm using now, CyberMotion, was never mentioned.  I think it's great!  It's very easy to use too, but perhaps this is more of a newbie type program or maybe it's just not well known. Too bad it doesn't export camera in 3ds files.  It would have been perfect for me.   We'll see how far Cinema 4D gets.

I indeed think cybermotion (yup, was mentioned, just not in this thread, I spoke a bit bout it also, i think) is very good, and advanced. Just not well known. But you really need certain features in 3ds export. the free Open Fx may have those, I dunno. Maybe could be used for scenery (imho not for organic characters) i didn't find it very easy for a beguinner(a beguinner in 3d, I mean. I got it when I knew 3d already, but I magine is hard if you never touched a ui about 3d), though.

good luck McCloud.    I think the 3: Blender, cybermotion and cinema4d could do. I sjust that you need a very special 3ds export, and I am expecting it only be in blender...Yet though, check it in Cinema4d.

@ Tol

Quote from: gfxmachine on Yesterday at 10:35:43 PM
Does it makes chocolate biscuits too? Wink
Not yet, but I heard somewhere that there is sequencer plugin in development that will be able to do such things

yep, there's indeed a new developing branch, which decided to go for the Yorkshire Pudding making feature, as opposite to an ineficient chocolate biscuit generator(indeed it usually did spread the sugar all aorund the kitchen, a bad compile it seems..), they say, which will bring Blender to a dead end.

Discussions apart, I'm trying to loose weight! And you speaking bout biscuits...
Making graphics makes one fat.

Quote from: gfxmachine on Yesterday at 12:32:09 AM
Anim8or(freeware) has a threshold angle for it.
I don´t make realtime so I don´t know, if this is of any use for this, but there is AutoSmooth feature, which seems to do something like this:)

hehe. That I thought years ago. And said "i'm saved".But no. is not really autosmooth...The feature is lacking...and what it makes, neer gets the enough smoothness...A 75º real threshold is not achievable. And anyway, would never be it, really. But yup, I know there's interest in adding it, so , that one will come.

just a note: blender line is mainly film and hi res. Reason said by some of the main people behind it(not ton) when asked bout realtime 3d game art features. In several posts in which I took part, been asked:

-multiples UVs, for real multiple texturing with several UV channels...that's a freaking new world which would benefit hi res one day, anyway. And trust me, it will come too (it's getting done all what i though as important in 2001 or 2002, hehe.Some of the features are in Max , Maya and LW, since eons..yup, they'r not free, etc. But time to get those )   
-smooth creases. What said. Is in milkshape, even.
-rendermap xsi feature. Or better said: normal maps (now in max7 as a full workflow).In general, the ability to bake everything to an uv texture: ideal as those things cant be done by a game engine at real time: so you lie baking it to texture pixels :)The visual effect is practically identical.This surely will include generation of lightmaps, once there's multiple uv support.
-joint pinning. Glueing a foot to floor when needed. allways been there with weirdhat tricks, but needed something quicker.
-etc

There's stuff been done in the meantime, often by third parties (users, external coders)
+ Imports and exports.freaking improved. Little to know tools have (even comercial ones) such good support of md2, md3, md5, x, etc, etc.
+animation getting professional fo rgames.
+the GI like rendering will help a lot when lightmaps generation will be possible.
+the whole revamp of UI so that ppl from other packages find it now mor efamiliar (yet though I keep not changing the LMB for the RMB but leaving the original config, go guess...)
-etc,etc

Overall, it'd be crazy to choose other character animator, right now, for real time 3d game art makers, the indy ones I mean.That unless using time to learn is an issue.
I'm even questioning if using Blender to animate my characters for indy projects instead my XSI foundation! I just like better the Blender UI, it shares with Wings a faster UI, compared to other packages, imho.

Nice to talking with you, I enjoyed conversation whith someone experienced in this fiels. It gave me  new insights, thank you

I hope my bad sense of humour and long paragraphs did not disturb anyone... 
btw, in which way are you related with that czech blender site? there are posted some of the most impressive Blender scenes I have seen ever...i yet remember one very comples of a castle, and another of a broken bridge...they poped in elysiun long ago, and they were amazing
is not th etype of work I do usually (dirty game engine stuff) .I'd like to get back to hi res at some point one day...



@ lazarus

Yes, I was meaning blender as a whole package (modeling, rendering and animating).
Btw. I am using Deep UV, is ultimate unwrap better?

IMHO yep, and quite cheaper (40 or 50$) www.unwrap3d.com
Or well, maybe Deep Uv is better for hi res meshes. In the sense of the kind of unwraping it does, is better for those. You cannot use automatic unwrapping for rt 3d games.Simply it wont do, as artists later on gotta use efficiently every pixel. Uv mapping must be very controlled for engine reasons, and also, other artists need to repaint the textures.usually not using a 3d painting tool, so uvs must be perfect and human readable.
For hi res though, it may be much quicker.
On a side note: Wings3d and blender have an automatic mapping system that really can save time for hi res meshes.

yet though, only used deep uv demo, and shortly. Though the more uis you see, the quicker you can see stuff.I spent some days with it. And yep, it's powerful. But I didn't like certain things.

I usually create morph tragets of my objects and then I flatten them, so I can use planar projection.

Both Wings3d autouv, and Blender LSCM mapping (if written so)  with its pinning feature, are also good methods.

You need to flatten them having deep uv? That's the old way of uv mapping. Done in max witha keyframe if I remember well. there was an improve fo rthat, chilliskinner plugin, at chilliweb.co.uk , if that one exist yet! It simply saved a lot of time in that. It indeed can be more accurate, but not all volumes are ideal for that.

My way is I don't ever tocuh the mesh, I unwrap it in uvs. Is similar, as I actually make the thing, but touching uvs only. Both deep uv and Ultimate unwrap (and max, etc) have many ways to do this. max 8 coming soon has pelting for uvs, a feature called so also in Truespace 6...havent tested pelting yet.

You have other tool, uvmapper.com . For that. It has a good relax, but overall, I prefer Ultimate Unwrap.

And then I just merge them into continuous UV map.

hey, that I make but with uv tools in unwrap3d (ultimate unwrap)
I just use one of its 3 automatic methods for almost coplannar or of 15º threshold, and the weld in uvs those sheets. In hi res, it can become really painful some of those ways. there's were automatic methods have more sense. Texture Weapons was a purchaseable method for Deep Paint3d. It later on got called Deep Uv, and become an application apart. If deep uv preserved all of its weapons -which i am afraid it didn't-  it should have some vry cool automatic unwraping really useful. Good thing is you could fix uv while 3d painting. And the other way. Now they're two application, I guess perfectly integrated, but hotlinking between application never was perfect. I dunno, I don't have deep uv.

But today in most pacakges you don't need to touch the real 3d mesh to uv map. There's diamond mapping, pelting, box mapping, normals mapping, lscm mapping, or themethods better though for inorganic like those in unwrap3d. Etc. Even more, have some revolutionary methods like those provided by Mankua's Texture Layers: you can uv map building in 3d a quick splines skeleton. Later, you modifiy UVs pulling in 3d the uv vertices while checking in the uv window besides. Together with more fast methods. But that's a max comercial plugin.

[Tol]

I hope my bad sense of humour and long paragraphs did not disturb anyone... 

Not me for sure

btw, in which way are you related with that czech blender site?

If you mean www.blender3d.cz then I am owner and one of maintainers:)

there are posted some of the most impressive Blender scenes I have seen ever...i yet remember one very comples of a castle, and another of a broken bridge...they poped in elysiun long ago, and they were amazing

Both- Broken bridge  (New hope) and Castle is work of  Blitz He had posted his new creation at Elysiun few days ago- it´s called Metalphoenix:)

Hmm, but maybe we are going little offtopic here...

[Lazarus12]

GFXmachine

You need to flatten them having deep uv? That's the old way of uv mapping.

Yes I'm aware of it but it gives me more control over my UVs.
(or is it just my imagination  )
I do that in LW and then sort them in Deep UV, and just for high poly organic models.
For the rest I just mess directly with UVs.

Well man learns as he lives so maybe I change that method over the time.

This became wery interesting thread  .

[McCloud]

I guess Cinema4d demo is not crippled in 3ds export.

My friend burned a copy for me.  I think it's an older version though.  Cinema 4D seems easy enough, but I quickly picked up on Cybermotion.  It was very easy for me to learn and I can navigate through it quite easily.  The only problem I have is it's 3ds export and it's takes FOREVER to render my scene.  Right now it has 15 hours left.  I think I checked something that causes it longer to render, but I can't remember what it is.  I know I have my Photons turned off, I dunno. Perhaps it's my video card, it has 128mb shared memory, but my Uncle is sending my a different card that has it's own memory that's 256mb memory, so maybe that may help in performance.

Do export it and check with a converter or whatever, that it exports camera an lights, if you can (lol, deep exploration 30 days demo will allow you that, download at right hemisphere.

Converters are new to me, I never used one.  Can they also create a camera if one wasn't exported in the 3ds file?

[gfxmachine]

@tol

hehe, well, true. But a good off topic is something not to miss You know, in real life when one speaks conversations navigate smootly between themes...Is ok imho while we keep answering a good percentage of the topic (which I am gonna do bellow   )
BTW, really good work of that friend of you he made.

@lazarus 

Actually, is not a bad method. In the tools -dunno in lw- I used, it was a load of work. Compared to doing uv techniques only. But one thing is true: it's close to perfection if done well.
As I told you I envy every LW user. That's a really cool tool. My bad luck; rarely used in game companies...If not I'd have a chance to use it...only tested demos.


@mc cloud

Well, you may have triggered GI rendering in CyberMotion.  But u said u deactivated photons..in my xsi , it really forces a load of time the photons thing, unless used carefully. There are a lot of setting related to GI (global illumination render, a most realistic rendering) , or raytracing, or a mix of both, some softwares allow that. A render can get for ever with just a plain dumb setting...

"Converters are new to me, I never used one.  Can they also create a camera if one wasn't exported in the 3ds file?"

rarely...
The two best converters out there are :

Deep Exploration , expensive, freaking good, uber powerful, lights and cameras are kept, but heh, no creation, I think...like 250 $ I think...

micromouse.ca , this one is only 20$ and truely rocks...dunno bout the lights...I'll tell you much more later, that, and about a pair of thing more elated to the main topic