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[odnorf]

Well, it dependes on how good you want your characters. If you want great - professional looking characters (syberia is good example) then you have to learn a 3D program and create it yourself. Which is going to be REALLY difficult especially if you want to animate him later. Now, if you just want a simple 3D character (like the one in the wme demo) then you can use a program named POSER. It has a few built-in characters, and sime clothes. All you have to do is make the animation (it even has a build-in walk animator) and maybe a texture. This is the method I am using (I don't have the time to draw a character right now, but maybe later).

PS. If I am not mistaken, mnemonic used Poser for the character in the wme demo. At least it looks like a character which is rendered in poser.

[Jerrot]

thank you. of course you cannot know what I'm thinking of exactly - just because I didn't explain it. so let's try:

i know and own poser 4 - in fact i even animated a character with poser 4 and its walk designer before, when i started to work with AGAST. i had a look at poser 5, too - but somehow I didn't like it, so I did not upgrade it finally.

now - i don't want to use the default built-in poser characters. as you already mentioned : you recognize them! and i want to be able to create very custom characters. (e.g. think of the following Melon Man as a character!)

I can use 3ds max for work, although I never used it, so what I'm looking for is some tutorial like this:

• create some simple character in 3ds max. Nothing of high quality, let's call him "Melon Man". A melon with two arms and two legs.  I guess even I could do this with polygons and without too much help.
• give Melon Man bones for the animation
• add some texture and a light source (if needed here?)
• animate Melon Man - maybe in Poser or in 3ds (which could be interesting to use the built-in cel shader) and export them as the 2d pictures we all need...

I don't know if you can use the textures in Poser, if you have to use polygons only and all this stuff, I just try to describe how I imagine it COULD work. i don't want to work 2 years with 3ds and build cubes and houses i don't want. I want characters!!  ;)

But if someone could describe the actions above step-by-step ("click on Cube, click on whatever...") everyone (me! ;)) could try to expand these basic steps for more complex things. Or maybe there are very good tutorials already I don't know yet.

thanks for any help.  8)

[odnorf]

Well, in this case I believe I can't help you. I am a photoshop guy and not a 3D guy.

But from what I know : To create even a 3d simple character is not the easiest thing. But if you know enought things about 3D studio I guess you can find some tutorials. I haven't seen any of those in the web but there are many books about it. To create bones for the character and animate it is even more difficult. You can still use the poser to create good-enough characters if you don't use the characters that are in the package. If you search around the web you will find many companies that create and sell good characters for poser.

PS. When will we see a screenshot from your game?

[Jerrot]

Hey odnorf!

Well, in this case I believe I can't help you. I am a photoshop guy and not a 3D guy.

Me too, that's it... ! And probably 3d characters wouldn't fit at all in the game I want to create, but I wanted to do this several times for different purposes now and when I saw the screenshots, it just came back to me again... ! And I can imagine a combination of 2D art with some help of 3D (at least the wireframe... e.g. to create some objects that are hard to draw by hand and maybe have to be rotated).

There are many tutorials and many books, you just won't find the combination "absolute beginners" and "characters".

To create bones for the character and animate it is even more difficult.

Well, yes, it's not just "create bones<enter>" for sure, but is it really that difficult to give Melon Man (*g*) two arms and two legs ? Maybe it really is, I don't know, but I cannot believe it yet. (I have to add, that I worked with Maya before and created some very simple rooms... and it was unbelievable easy! It's still here, but I won't use it in my game : http://wme.jerrot.de/genesiscafe.jpg)

PS. When will we see a screenshot from your game?

Oh!  As soon as I have one, I promise.  

Actually my / our plans are quite "big" for an amateur game... currently the story is going to be finished after a complete rewrite by my "hot jerrot babe", just the big finale is not finalized yet.

What comes next is a story-board, ordering the story by chapters and scribbled locations, building up the puzzles and necessary inventory, describing the characters... and after that the first backgrounds will be drawn.

Well, of course there IS some hand-drawn artwork already, but... well I'll see what I can do when I'm back home (I'm currently about 300km away from home. don't ask me if you calc in miles... !)

gtx, jerrot.

[odnorf]

but is it really that difficult to give Melon Man (*g*) two arms and two legs ?

From what I know, yes it is. You have to create bones for all the body. Otherwise nothing will work. When you move a leg, the bones are used to place not only the leg but the rest of the body. Take for example Poser (which has a really bad bone system): If you drag too much a leg it will look like it is "broken". Now imagine that effect with the smaller move if you don't have any bones.

(I have to add, that I worked with Maya before and created some very simple rooms... and it was unbelievable easy! It's still here, but I won't use it in my game : http://wme.jerrot.de/genesiscafe.jpg)

You found Maya easy? I think it is the most difficult 3D program I have ever seen. Oh... and I like the 3D picture.

Actually my / our plans are quite "big" for an amateur game... currently the story is going to be finished after a complete rewrite by my "hot jerrot babe", just the big finale is not finalized yet.

Well, it sounds very good and "proffesional"! Nothing comparing to what I am making (but keep in mind that it's a school project so I have to create 25 backgrounds, the character(s), the plot, the puzzles... and all in 2,5 months... I only have few days...)

Except you and your "hot jerrot babe" (does she has a name? ) is anyone else working on this game?

And we calculate in Km and not in miles in greece so I know exactly what distance that is.

PS. As I said I have created my character in Poser because I don't have much time left. And yes it looks a little strange with the backgrounds I have created but on the other hand I wanted them to look different. From the plot : the man is from our world and the scenes from a dream.

[Jerrot]

but is it really that difficult to give Melon Man (*g*) two arms and two legs ?

From what I know, yes it is. You have to create bones for all the body.

Ok, that's right - I tried this last night... but its' not that difficult, it took less than 5 minutes to create a skeleton of bones on my simple character with Poser. Then I grouped the polygons for the bones and that's it. But I don't know yet, how to tell the Walk Designer what it can do with this new figure now or how to texture it, maybe I'll try this today, although I'm quite sure I won't use it later...

You found Maya easy? I think it is the most difficult 3D program I have ever seen.

Hm? Well, it's very powerful indeed, a friend showed me the basic functions in 3-4 hours and after that I created that picture. I still can't use 3ds max that easy, but maybe that's because there was nobody who showed me the basics there.

Well, it sounds very good and "proffesional"! Nothing comparing to what I am making (but keep in mind that it's a school project so I have to create 25 backgrounds, the character(s), the plot, the puzzles... and all in 2,5 months... I only have few days...)

Oh, but you won't leave us after your project, will you ?  

No-no, you're going to create some big game without any time pressure, won't you ? Yes ? Great!  

Except you and your "hot jerrot babe" (does she has a name? ) is anyone else working on this game?

No - I'm very egocentric.  
The adventure idea has somehow become important for me, it's something creative and new and therefore good after sitting endless hours in front of the machine programming internet stuff. I started drawing and I got new goals for one of my old hobbies (creating music), AND I can do something on the computer for ME, not only for customers.

I just love this project so much, that I want to do all this stuff by myself or together with my girl (she calls herself "Kirsty" when online). Of course some people will have to participate later to spend their great voices, but that comes later...

PS. As I said I have created my character in Poser because I don't have much time left. And yes it looks a little strange with the backgrounds I have created but on the other hand I wanted them to look different. From the plot : the man is from our world and the scenes from a dream.

I'm curious to see the final project, when will you have to finish it ?

[odnorf]

Oh, but you won't leave us after your project, will you ?

No-no, you're going to create some big game without any time pressure, won't you ? Yes ? Great!

Long Answer : No, I won't leave. I really love playing adventure games but as I discoverd I love more to create adventures. Otherwise I wouldn't choose to create one for a school project. I would have chosen something more conventional (like all m friends did). And I am thinking of finishing "dreams" first (the school project with the 25 backgrounds is a demo of the final game). It's not going to be something great but it's good enought for a first try. And as they say : "you have to create ten bad games first to create a good one then".

Short Answer : I am going to create adventure games for ALL my life so "NO, I WILL NOT LEAVE".

I just love this project so much, that I want to do all this stuff by myself or together with my girl (she calls herself "Kirsty" when online). Of course some people will have to participate later to spend their great voices, but that comes later...

First of all say a "hello" from me to Kirsty
Voices??? Really? Is it goind to have voices too?

I'm curious to see the final project, when will you have to finish it ?

Well, it's almost ready now. But I have to create also the box for the game, the manual, a book to introduce to the game, a reference card etc

So expect it to be online (if I find the space) in 3-4 weeks. Right now it's 27MB but it's going to be a few MB's more. Imagine how many hours it will take me to upload it with a 56Kbps modem.

[Mnemonic]

Just out of curiosity: what school are you studying, odnorf?

[Jerrot]

Short Answer : I am going to create adventure games for ALL my life so "NO, I WILL NOT LEAVE".

Well, THAT'S the spirit!  

Voices??? Really? Is it goind to have voices too?

Yes, voices are a must-be ! Long adventures should have voices and this one is going to be quite long... And the heros (yes, there are two and yes - you'll have to switch between them!) will have to talk to many people, so voices are really necessary here, else it could become too boring...

Well, it's almost ready now. But I have to create also the box for the game, the manual, a book to introduce to the game, a reference card etc

Now I've got the same question as Mnemonic...

So expect it to be online (if I find the space) in 3-4 weeks. Right now it's 27MB

Wow. Hm, let's see when it's about the time, maybe I can help you hosting the game.

[Dawson]

You know, there are other ways than making them yourselves to get a 3D character, you download off of a lot of websites such as 3DCafe or buy them off others, which you can also do on 3DCafe, but the other thing is to download them of P2P programs such as KaZaA

[odnorf]

Just out of curiosity: what school are you studying, odnorf?

Now I've got the same question as Mnemonic...

Well, that's a really difficult question for my poor english. I really don't know how to describe it. Let's start from the beggining. I am a graphic designer (or a graphic artist which I don't like) which means a lot but in my case it means that I create "graphics" that are going to be printed most of the time. I create magazines, books, advertisments (mostly for paper), fonts, illustrations for anything you can imagine, websites, logotypes, your mousepads! and anything else that you can imagine that can be printed (on paper or on objects). A really famous American "graphic designer" is "David Carson". You will find many websites about him.

Did that clear things or I confused you even more? I searched in an english-greece dictionary and I couldn't find an english word for my job. And as far as I know, the Universities in England are using also the term "graphic designer".

[Jerrot]

Did that clear things or I confused you even more?

Ehm, to be honest - the last option!
I know the job as a graphic designer, I work with them every day - but my (and I guess our) question was about your type of school. So can I understand it this way: you're still at that school learning graphic design ?

[odnorf]

Did that clear things or I confused you even more?

Ehm, to be honest - the last option!
I know the job as a graphic designer, I work with them every day - but my (and I guess our) question was about your type of school. So can I understand it this way: you're still at that school learning graphic design ?

Well, I am a graphic designer but there are always things to learn and you can always get better. So now I am doing a postgraduate (is that a correct word?). How about now? Is that a clearer answer?

EDIT: We are again off-topic  

[Jerrot]

Well, I am a graphic designer but there are always things to learn and you can always get better. So now I am doing a postgraduate (is that a correct word?). How about now? Is that a clearer answer?

Ah, yes, all right.

EDIT: We are again off-topic  

Ah, yes, all right.

[odnorf]

So expect it to be online (if I find the space) in 3-4 weeks. Right now it's 27MB

Wow. Hm, let's see when it's about the time, maybe I can help you hosting the game.

I don't even need 30MBs.... I am thinking of splitting the game in 5MBs RAR files (so that I don't have to upload it in one day, and so that the people like me with 56kbps modems can download it more easily). Until now two of my friends have told me that they may have some space at that time. So if only you could host 1 or 2 of the files that would be really helpfull.