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Author Topic: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?  (Read 6660 times)

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scutheotaku

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"faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« on: August 04, 2009, 05:19:33 AM »

Hey, I don't quite understand how the 2.5D part of Wintermute works (I'm actually really a newb to the engine as a whole), but I was wondering - wouldn't it be possible to do fully 3D scenes by have another actor in the room as the 3D model for the scene? My thought is you'd have that actor, then you'd either do the blocked areas in the scene editor, or have a .3ds for the scene walk paths (like you normally do with 2.5D as it is). Would this work? Would there really be any point to it (real-time lighting is the only thing I can think of at the moment)? And would this break the stencil shadows for the "player" actor (i.e. the actor wouldn't properly project shadows onto the scene)?

Thanks!

PS : Sorry for all the questions lately, I'm just trying to get a good grip on this engine ;D
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 05:21:40 AM by scutheotaku »
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Jyujinkai

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 06:56:54 AM »

there is no advantage to doing what you are talking about in this engine.
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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 11:35:10 AM »

You cannot create realtime 3D Scenes with Wintermute. 2.5D Simply means that you use pre-rendered or hand-drawn backgrounds with 3D Characters in it. Thats all. If you want real 3D, you can check out ogre, but you need good knowledge of C++ Programming Language for that, and I don't know if there's any adventure-related stuff available for ogre for free.

The only 3D you use in Wintermute is the Geometry File, which is simply a file which contains INformation on where the 3D Charater may walk, where Shadows should be cast, and so on.

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scutheotaku

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 01:36:10 PM »

You cannot create realtime 3D Scenes with Wintermute. 2.5D Simply means that you use pre-rendered or hand-drawn backgrounds with 3D Characters in it. Thats all. If you want real 3D, you can check out ogre, but you need good knowledge of C++ Programming Language for that, and I don't know if there's any adventure-related stuff available for ogre for free.

The only 3D you use in Wintermute is the Geometry File, which is simply a file which contains INformation on where the 3D Charater may walk, where Shadows should be cast, and so on.



Yes, I understand this. What I am saying is having a 3D scene by using an actor file.

EDIT : And I do see a few advantages. One would be faking 3d movement by moving the "scene/actor" file towards the "camera" when moving forward, and rotating it around a center axis (where the "camera" would be) when the "camera" turns.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 01:38:47 PM by scutheotaku »
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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 03:30:27 PM »

It sure is possible, but as you said, it would be faking. There are no tools for interactively positioning the 3D objects in scene so it would be quite painful to design scenes this way.
However, it's not uncommon to use large 3D objects as part of the scene. For example in the old "The closet" demo the closet itself is a 3D object.
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Jyujinkai

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2009, 05:46:57 PM »

You can not animate the camera or lights or anythign like that
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scutheotaku

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 12:06:39 AM »

You can not animate the camera or lights or anything like that

I don't think you quite get what I mean. Here is a more detailed description-

On the scene you have no background. The entire visual part of the scenery is a 3d actor file (hereby referred to as the actor). If the player wanted to turn right (perhaps by pushing a key, or clicking to turn like in Myst), the actor would rotate left, and then any entities would move with it (though not move in 3d space, they would merely move in a 2d space and, if possible, be scaled horizontally depending on angle). There would be no camera that is rotating, everything would be rotating around one center point where this "camera" would be.

The two problems that I can think are-
1. Collisions. Can you rotate a .3ds Geometry File in real-time?
2. Lights. Can lights be moved in realtime, or are they "baked"?

Now collisions would not be an issue in a first person game with predefined turn and movement rates (like Myst). But in a third person game or in a first person game with variable speed and rotation it would obviously be a problem (unless you can rotate the Geometry Files, which I doubt). Lights would be the real deal-breaker (except, of course, in a 2D looking 3D game).

And on it being painful to design scenes this way, I think if done right it wouldn't be THAT bad. Essentially the entities wouldn't be that bad once a base formula was made to properly move the entities and (if possible) scale their sprites with turning. I think this is most realistic in a Myst-style game (with, like I stated above, predefined turns and movements), and once the base setup was done I would MUCH rather do it this way then render FMVs - but then again, I'm not much of an artist.

But yeah, I'm just thinking - sorry if I'm being bothersome or newbish  :)

Thanks.
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Jyujinkai

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2009, 12:33:01 AM »

The two problems that I can think are-
1. Collisions. Can you rotate a .3ds Geometry File in real-time?
2. Lights. Can lights be moved in realtime, or are they "baked"?

1. No (unless it is an actor file)
2. No
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scutheotaku

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Re: "faking" 3d scenes with an actor?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 01:45:51 AM »

The two problems that I can think are-
1. Collisions. Can you rotate a .3ds Geometry File in real-time?
2. Lights. Can lights be moved in realtime, or are they "baked"?

1. No (unless it is an actor file)
2. No

Well, the lighting does mess it up. So that narrows it down to a Myst-style cartoony game with static ambient lighting, lol.

Well, atleast now I know :)
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