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1396

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 03:09:47 PM »

I'm reading on sierra.com right now... don't know why I never heard about it. But currently I'm playing "The Longest Journey" (yeah, quite late, too, I know...) and I hope a package with "Syberia" will arrive me tomorrow. But wow, The Longest Journey is... well I never liked realtime 3d characters too much, but this game is great.

Yeah, "The longest Journey" and "Syberia" are great games and they one of the few adventure games where the main character is a woman.... And I don't know if you know it but "Syberia 2" is created as we talk, and a few weeks ago the CEO of Funcom said that they have plans for "The longest Journey 2"

And in every scene I'm thinking about how to do this with WME, that's funny - and it would work!

That happened to me too since I start using the WME!
There is only one thing that can't be done yet... The realtime 3D characters.
EDIT: and that great effect in the first scene when you walk to the left (to the cliff) and the prerendered 2D backgrounds rotates and zooming a little (I have played it a long time ago and I can't remember it exactly).... How did they do THAT?

I guess I didn't realize any other adventure games, because adventures always meant "LucasArts" for me. (Ok, them and Broken Sword...)

LucasArts adventures are my favorites too... but I always keep an eye on all the other companies too because I really love adventures.... Hey, I even choose to create an adventure game for a school project...

Uhm, yes, both!  

Well, I use irc sometimes but I'm not very familiar with it.... I believe that you (as an internet programmer) is the expert into those things...
As for the network I usually am... welll..... irc.gr.irc at #linux....
It's the greek linux channel and we speek greek so it's not the best place if you can't speek greek

1397

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 02:39:38 PM »

oops, i don't even know gabriel knight... i will have to look for more information about it later...

You don't even know GK series? That's strange!

Ok, I'm the whole day in irc anyway... which network ?

You ask me for a network to create a #WME channel or in which network I am usually are? (When I am... not very often...)

1398

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 02:22:59 PM »

I *love* the GK series! I don't understand why there's so much controversy about GK3, I think it's an excellent game; for me it's one of the best AG's of all time.

YES.... It's one of the best. I think that it's unique camera movement (and not actor movement) is one of the most revolutionary ideas I have seen in computer games the last 10 years.  I REALLY LOVED IT.

PS. We need an irc channel Something like #WME

1399

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 02:11:34 PM »

You bet! Gabriel Knight 3, Escape from Monkey Island and Outcast (well, not exactly an adventure :-)

  That's really cool!

PS. Did you liked Gabriel Knight 3 or I am the only one in this planet that think that this is a great game? (I assume that you have played it since you are the one who translated it for your country.)

1400

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 02:02:17 PM »

Funny feeling, btw. I've spent quite a long time of my life translating other people's programs (games, to be exact), now other people are translating *my* programs. Creepy!

You must have a lot of patience! I am trying to translate 300 lines (the projectman) and I can't do it for more than 10 minutes a day...

Have you ever translated any adventure game? And particular any well-known adventure game?

1401

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 12:55:07 PM »

1. i don't use the projectman very often... although it's lovely and i would not like to miss it, i change most things just with ultraedit...

Aye... me too. I don't use the ProjectMan very often... and I am using windows notepad (yes... I am crazy...) althought I'm thinking of trying ultraedit...

2. all these technical terms sound stupid in german. everyone understands the english terms, i understand them even better in english than in german...

They sound stupid in greeks too. It's a really difficult task. I'm changing everyhting over and over to try to make them  look good...

so i stopped translating, maybe if someone really needs a translation i'd have a second look into...

Well, I'm not using the greek translation. I am just doing this 'cause I love this engine and I want to give something back to mnemonic (maybe one day I will be able to give him money with a commercial game )

1402

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems 2

« on: April 29, 2003, 11:41:20 AM »

2 more problems where the greek text can't fit.... (that's 6 until now....)

http://master.math.upatras.gr/~odnorf/error5.png
http://master.math.upatras.gr/~odnorf/error6.png

PS. Am I the only one that is translating the ProjectMan? I feel sooooo alone here.
PS2. Is there anyone else from greece here? Do I have to translate sprite & scene editor by myself (when they have a .lng file)? It will take decades with the time I can spent into this...(I think I have translated about 70% of the ProjectMan)

1403

Feature requests, suggestions / Re:Redo?

« on: April 29, 2003, 12:03:50 AM »

In the default.lng there is this line : "str0275   Redo the previously undone action".

If there is not REDO yet what this line is doing in there?  

1404

Technical forum / greek translation problems 2

« on: April 28, 2003, 08:44:37 PM »

I keep translating the ProjectMan (very slowly.... a few lines/day).

I have 2 more small problems....

http://master.math.upatras.gr/~odnorf/shared_tools_error2.png
(here I need one more line because there is one word that can't fit)

http://master.math.upatras.gr/~odnorf/about_error.png
(one more line here please.... )

1405

Feature requests, suggestions / Re:Redo?

« on: April 28, 2003, 08:28:15 PM »

E? Mnemonic? No answer?

1406

General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?

« on: April 28, 2003, 03:49:06 PM »

I am in the business as producer of computer magazines and software since 1987 - you must be joking - lol

Joking? Why? Because I said that the commercial engines costs thousands $ and that's true?

most of them are now delivering the newspapers on a bike each morning or work for MCDonalds - rofl (behind the bar with that chic uniform)

Yes, I always thought that "ID" is broke. And yes you must be right... If they sold the Quake3 engine for 100$ now they will be rich.

@ Jerrot: You SHOULD invite Bill Gates - because without him I doubt that Mnemonic would develop on a computer rather than on paper and with plastic-actors

Well, I don't think that Microsoft has offered many things to the computer world. Only products with thousands of bugs. And If you ask me why I use windows, is because I am a graphic designer and I have to use programs like photoshop, Indesign, Illustrator etc (And I don't like macintosh for other reasons)

As I said before - I am just adding arguments to bring that business on an acceptable way - and if Zorro wouldn't have started that thread I would have done or someone else.

Not everything is business. Maybe mnemonic creates this engine because he likes to work for adventure games and if he manage to earn some money by doing what he likes then that's cool. I believe that things are on an "acceptable way" as they are now. It wouldn't be "acceptable" for me If I had to pay for an engine to create a free game. And ofcouse it wouldn't be "acceptable" for me to pay 10.000 to create a commercial game and potentially loose a lot of money. And it wouldn't be "acceptable" for me to pay 100$ for an engine an maybe earn 50.000$ by using it.

Money makes the world go round.  

For me, money just destroys civilization. I just don't like the way companies and individual (like you) treat them like Gods. What I like is creating adventure games. And if I ever create a commercial adventure game then I will contact mnemonic to have an agreement about his share.

1407

General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?

« on: April 28, 2003, 12:40:29 PM »

I did mention what I want to produce - 3D-Online-Chats

Well, that can't be created with WME. I think that 3d Gamestudio (that you mention is a very good solution).

If you buy a Hammer (a tool in the far sense as a 3D-Engine) you know what it costs you to use it. No-one comes and says: you hammered more than 1000 nails - I want more money then.

Well, I don't think that you can compare a hammer whith a computer program.

A few points about the fixed-price:
1)As I said I am an amateur adventure developer that one day I want to go commercially. If the engine was costing money for an amateur free adventure then I would have used another engine. But now I can use this engine for free and when in the future I (hope to) go commercially I will still use this engine because I will already know it. So the free-engine for free-adventures is a very good advertisment.
2)Let's say that the engine had a fixed price of about 200$. If I buy the engine and create a commercial product and earn 5million$ then this sounds fair to you? All engines out there costs a lot of money (for example the Quake3 engine costs a few thousands $). Do you want this engine to cost (for example) 10.000$ even if you create a product that sells 100 copies for 40$? With a current licence you will not loose any money! (Ofcource you have to trust the engine developer and have some kind of contract with him about the licence and the price.)

And a fact: Big companies like adobe, microsoft etc can have a fixed (expensive... check vc++, photoshop etc) price because they are BIG companies. A 26 years old person (mnemonic) that creates a difficult and complicated program like an adventure engine (that uses Direct3D for it's rendering core) cannot sell it for a low fixed price and cannot afford to sell it for a big fixed price either (like the big comperitors do: try to ask to buy the engine of a commercial game and you will be amazed of how much it's going to cost you.). So a case-by-case is a lot better.

And that's what makes people that do not know a fixed price for their product and are anxious to talk about it freely, suspect  

I understand you concerns (and they are fair) but I think that a low fixed price won't work as well as you think.

And that's It's Mnemonics business how its handled in the end

I agree 100% to that. I just beleive that the previous posts of mnemonic in this thread answer all your questions.

....and sorry if I sound a little harsh in my previous post.

1408

General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?

« on: April 28, 2003, 11:11:06 AM »

And the first thing I hated was the line: ... commercial ... it will cost $$$.

What's the problem here? That if you decide to make a game and earn some money then mnemonic doesn't deserve anything?

There are several tools for Gamedevelopers on the Market and there are new ones just recently coming and going. 3D Gamestudio, Blitz3D, Dark Basic Pro, DIV, Jamagic, GBasic, etc. are the astablished ones I know.

Well, Wintermute Engine is an "adventure creator" and not a programming language (althought it has a scripting language to create more complicated things). So the programs you mentioned (like Dark Basic, GBasic) are no comparable to WME (like mad, sludge, agast, AGS etc are).

Coming back to price-policies:
With all upgrades 3D-Studio cost me about $1500 by now. And there is the new upgrade out (maybe THE thing I am really looking for) but it would cost me another $500 - making it $2000 for me, summed up. Someone who buys it new today gets it for $1000. You see - there is no justice. I have supported the developer for years - helping him to be still alive - and the thanks I get is: I would have payed twice the price for the same product that a newbie pays for it.
This shows that there is no model that suits for everyone.

What this has to do with Wintermute Engine and mnemonic. Does he asked you 2000$ without you have FIRST earned a lot more by using his engine?

But one thing is for sure:
If you start with a license system you will not make a penny.
What you (in my view) can do is: Make your product better than the mentioned above, make its language simple (like) BASIC

Make the language like Basic? For what? Make the engine less powerfull?

and fix a price between $100 and $150.
Make that public on the net and be sure that nearly EVERYONE - and every wannabe gamedeveloper - that has bought Blitz or Dark or Jamagic or Gamestudio or whatever will buy your Engine, too.

And as far as the price, I don't think that could work. I'm a amateur adventure developer (one of the 1000s in the world) and I'm using this engine 'cause it's free for my free adventure. When someday I decide to create a commercial product then I will gladly pay for the engine but NOT NOW.  

I will watch the development - and will buy for sure if its something like that. And if not I will use the ones I already have or look for something else.

Other adventure engine out there mad, AGS, sludge, lixoo (not completed) and visionaire.

PS. I still don't understand if you are looking for an adventure engine  or just found this program and complain about it's licence when nobody asked you any money. You keep talking in your post about programs that are NOT comparable to WME or the others engines out there, while you said NOTHING about adventure games. You also talked about an engine to "create a community"?!?!? I think that you are in the wrong place 'cause what WME does (and very well) is to help you create adventure games and nothing else.

1409

General Discussion / Re:error

« on: April 28, 2003, 10:49:25 AM »

OK.... the problem is really big.... I have to click "refresh" 10 times in EVERY page to work...

1410

Technical forum / Re:greek translation problems

« on: April 27, 2003, 09:13:34 AM »

The preview pane is displayed by the engine itself, therefore it uses the WME bitmap fonts. So, you'd have to create a greek bitmap font and I'll have to make ProjectMan to use that font instead of the standard one.

I have created a bitmap font which has english AND greek characters. I have tested it in a game and the greek text works fine (I have even put the greek characters in the translation to be seen in the preview panel, which also works). But the Project Manager just uses the default outline_green font (which I have even deleted from my game's dir). If you put an option in ProjectMan to choose the font for the preview panel that would be great.

EDIT: In Debug mode the engine is using my system font which has the greek characters. So you can just tell the ProjectMan to use that system font too.