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Author Topic: MIDI?  (Read 31339 times)

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ClémentXVII

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2003, 10:11:29 AM »

I know about it, it's even used extensively by all my Linux games ;-), but I didn't find any info or tutorial about playing MIDI files on their site.

Eg: does SDL connect automatically to the MIDI sequencer, or do I have to connect it myself?

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odnorf

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2003, 11:32:07 AM »

[quote author=Cl
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ClémentXVII

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2003, 03:12:41 PM »

By Linux games, I mean games I bought (Neverwinter Nights, Wolfenstein,...) or GPL games (see http://www.happypenguin.org/ ).

I don't have 'Linux-specific' CD's, but they are needed to install the game with the game binaries, often found on the game's homepage, on the CD or on icculus's website.

I guess I'll try to make my hands on DirectMusic, and maybe try SDL later on... the structure shouldn't be too different ;-)
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Mnemonic

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2003, 03:20:38 PM »

[quote author=Cl
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ClémentXVII

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2003, 03:23:49 PM »

Really? :-\
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odnorf

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2003, 05:32:19 PM »

« Last Edit: July 01, 2003, 05:33:17 PM by odnorf »
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Mnemonic

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2003, 10:31:12 PM »

SO... you know about the SDL library? Why didn't you choose it to create the wme? (Just asking out of cusiocity, since using SDL makes a program highly postable on many OSes.)

Well, I don't really know. I probably didn't even know about SDL back then. Didn't much care about portability neither. And, except the portability, I don't feel like I'm missing something by not using SDL. At least I have a complete control of what's happening inside the engine.
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odnorf

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2003, 11:09:02 AM »

Well, I don't really know. I probably didn't even know about SDL back then. Didn't much care about portability neither. And, except the portability, I don't feel like I'm missing something by not using SDL. At least I have a complete control of what's happening inside the engine.

Well, NO, ofcourse you are not loosing anything except the portability... As I said I was just curious (because for me portability is usually a first-class priority so I don't understand 100% the need for directX for an adventure game engine).
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Jerrot

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2003, 11:27:31 AM »

I don't understand 100% the need for directX for an adventure game engine).

Speed and graphics card compatibility to use the hardware rendering! In fact DirectX was one of my prior reasons to have a closer look on WME. Of course that's only because I didn't know SDL yet... and didn't care too much about the portability yet... :) Is it really comparable with DirectX (speed and functionality!) ?
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 11:31:22 AM by Jerrot »
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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2003, 11:41:10 AM »

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe SDL is built on top of DirectX anyway (the Win32 implementation that is).
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 11:41:32 AM by Mnemonic »
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odnorf

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2003, 12:17:52 PM »

Quote
Is it really comparable with DirectX (speed and functionality!) ?

Well, I don't think that is as good as DirectX (but I might be wrong), but for an adventure game it has everything anyone needs (in the wme case, it has opengl support instead of directx) + VERY GOOD portability (DirectX is only for win, but opengl is for every OS).

Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe SDL is built on top of DirectX anyway (the Win32 implementation that is).

I can't really say. Maybe if you don't use the opengl acceleration then it uses the directx directdraw (or maybe not :)). But it really doesn't matter, because if a program is using the SDL library then it can be built (if it doesn't have some specific-os code ofcourse) in many OSes.

EDIT: from the SDL WINDOWS FAQ page at http://www.libsdl.org/faq.php?action=listentries&category=4
"SDL takes advantage of DirectX hardware acceleration when it is available, but falls back to the standard Win32 services if DirectX is not installed."

Oh... and for anyone that might think that I am whining about wme's direct3D... I am not.... :) I find this feature VERY exciting...:) In fact, it's one of the main reasons that I am using this engine. I just mention SDL for the midi playback... :) :)

EDIT: I also forgot to say that the SDL library is under the LGPL opensource licence which meant that any closed-source program can used it if it links to the sdl.dll.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 12:34:02 PM by odnorf »
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ClémentXVII

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2003, 12:55:40 PM »

Quote
Is it really comparable with DirectX (speed and functionality!) ?

Considering all the Linux ports of current games (Neverwinter Nights, games based on ID Software's Quake III engine like wolfenstein, medal of honor, UT2K3,...) are using SDL (because DX isn't available on that platform), I'd say yes.

« Last Edit: July 02, 2003, 12:55:58 PM by Cl »
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KA-su-MA-kun

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2003, 03:52:01 PM »

LOL The only reason mod has better sound is because it's the software equivalent of a SFX sampling board. The independent sounds are actually samples which are called via the same method used in MIDI (or similar at least because I've never seen a MIDI sequencer work like a MOD one period).

You can get the same quality of sound using a similar method with MIDI files, like iMuse I think used which is called a wave table, which is similar to the "Sound Font" libraries used by Creative soundcards these days (like my SBLive!, the Audigy, etc), in that the MIDI sequencer isn't called, but a replacement of it's instruments sounds ie I call a Muted Trumpet, it plays a sound effect which in theory is a recorded Muted Trumpet at a neutral tone, which can be modified via other calls like normal midi effects (ok so I'm simplifying it a lot).

It depends on where you want to take Wintermute in the future, if you intend to remain freeware the SEAL Development kit would be a good idea to look at. http://www.sonicspot.com/sealsdk/sealsdk.html Or even FMOD http://www.sonicspot.com/fmod/fmod.html I cannot think of any completely open source development as far as MOD goes, but you might try having a look at the Amiga developers archives, it is where it started from. :-)
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odnorf

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2003, 03:59:02 PM »

Or even FMOD http://www.sonicspot.com/fmod/fmod.html

FMOD has a really strange licence. And it seems that nobody (not even the guys at fmod site) knows what's the deal if someone wants to create a commercial game/product with it. I wouldn't want wme to mess with such a license.

EDIT: I even remember a discussion(s) about FMOD at Sludge forums (Sludge is using FMOD library) and nobody was able to tell 100% sure what's the state with the licence.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 04:11:33 PM by odnorf »
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Mnemonic

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Re:MIDI?
« Reply #29 on: July 30, 2003, 04:43:27 PM »

EDIT: I even remember a discussion(s) about FMOD at Sludge forums (Sludge is using FMOD library) and nobody was able to tell 100% sure what's the state with the licence.

I don't know the details, but... either the engine developer would have to buy some kind of redistributable license (expensive) or the engine users would have to pay (less expensive). AFAIK even Sludge is about to abandon FMOD because of the licensing issues.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2003, 04:43:45 PM by Mnemonic »
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