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Author Topic: Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!!  (Read 26946 times)

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McCoy

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Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!!
« on: July 04, 2003, 03:43:27 PM »

I know that it has passed a lot of time since I said "the prealpha will be ready tomorrow", but blame the translator, all the delay was caused by him  ::).
But now it's ready to rock! Download the Fred English Public PreAlpha (what a long name) here!:

http://www.forbidden-games.com

And please, post your comments, i'm very interested!!  ;D
« Last Edit: April 16, 2004, 06:35:34 PM by McCoy »
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2003, 10:43:01 AM »

Sorry if anyone saw the old post (I guess not), I deleted it because the prealpha had a little bug, and some things without translate, now all is fixed & uploaded  ;D.

There still are some missing translations, especially when looking in the inventory and using things there. But that's okay for an alpha version.

Anyway - what a great improvement from the first alpha! I was surprised you already implemented some nice fitting music and sound effects (even for walking). And I laughed my ass off when opening the fridge. ;-)

Yeah, as already mentioned I prefer the new graphic style. The music theme you worked with sounds like a melody, that was (mis-)used for a German XMAS-Song (don't know if this is a international xmas-song or if you wanted it to sound like that), anyway it's really funny.

Now - great work until now, and a well solved inventory ! Continue!! :)

Oh, one thing left: your second scene was inspirated by Sam&Max, right ? ;)
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2003, 11:49:47 AM »

There still are some missing translations, especially when looking in the inventory and using things there. But that's okay for an alpha version.

Wow, one of the glitches I fixed was the missed translation of looking the objects of the inventory, but, you're right, when you use one thing with another, the messages you get if that action is not correct are in spanish  :P. I'll fix that and upload it again. (Oh no... another 7mb with my f****** 56k conection...)

Anyway - what a great improvement from the first alpha! I was surprised you already implemented some nice fitting music and sound effects (even for walking). And I laughed my ass off when opening the fridge. ;-)

Well, that stupid rolling "animation" will be replaced with an special "I did it!" animation in the final game, I made that just to remember where that kind of animations must be placed.

The music theme you worked with sounds like a melody, that was (mis-)used for a German XMAS-Song (don't know if this is a international xmas-song or if you wanted it to sound like that), anyway it's really funny.

An XMAS song?? Oh my...  :-[ . I don't think it's international, at least, the first time I ever heared that song was while I was searching for MIDIs, I thought it would fit and I putted it in the game. ;D

Now - great work until now, and a well solved inventory ! Continue!! :)

Thanx! ;D

Oh, one thing left: your second scene was inspirated by Sam&Max, right ? ;)
Yeah, you catched it.  ;)

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2003, 12:12:42 PM »

Nice work, Forbidden Games! :) It looks very clean and polished (although the second scene looks awfully familiar... ;))

A small suggestion: wouldn't it be better to display the actions menu when holding the *left*mouse button? The left button seems to be pretty much useless right now.
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2003, 12:58:13 PM »

A small suggestion: wouldn't it be better to display the actions menu when holding the *left*mouse button? The left button seems to be pretty much useless right now.

Well, I don't know if it's a windows habit, but I feel a lot more confortable using the RMB for pop-up or contextual menus. Using the LMB I feel strange, like it's... unnatural  :-[? It's strange but that's it. It's just like if in my brain the RMB is naturally attached to a pop-up or contextual menu function...  :-\

BTW, the LMB is used to select objects from the inventory, skip dialogs and navigate through the main menu, so it's not completely useles...  :P
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2003, 06:24:36 PM »

Ok... I haven't finished it yet (I can't find the keys... oh, I feel so embarassed! :( ) but I have a few things to say (in randomly order, as they come to my mind).

First of all : WOW!!! This is a really good!!!! Keep up the good work!!!

Except the inventory items not translated, there is another one : just look at the "box full of knicks-knack".

Why the computer & the monitor are called "cpu"?

The fridge-opening is really funny!

A small bug : when the inventory is opened the game isn't "paused". This is not really a bug, but it would lead to strange things. For example, you can move the character if you like, you may miss some dialogue lines because the inventory is almost-full-screen, etc.

I really think that you should change the right-click-menu to a left-click menu (as Jan suggested). I played the game for 5 minutes and my hand hearts. I am not used to click AND hold the right mouse button all the time. If you really think that it's better to work with the right button, then please add an option for it in the menus. (And if you use the left mouse for the actions-menu, then you could use the right button for the inventory)

A small suggestion. I always use shortcuts when they exist. Especially in an adventure game. So I would suggest to put some (near-buttons) shortcuts for the 3 actions, the inventory, the game menu, the load menu, the exit menu. It's what I did for "dreams". Maybe you could even make a settings menu were the player could adjust the shortcuts (it can be done by using the registry, it's what I am doing now for "dreams").

Well... that's all I think for now... keep up the good work!

I notice that you hvae changed the icon of the wme interprenter. How did you do it? Did you hack it?

You might want to consider change the game's resolution to 1024x768. It's what I am doing with "dreams" and it looks so much better in big monitors (19 or 21 inches) :)

I know that you said (in the readme) that you want the fps with an e-mail but I am really bored to do that so....
I tested the demo in two computers:

Celeron 400Mhz, 64MB RAM, intel 810 graphic chipset : the game runs at 39-38fps, which drops to 5 in the beginning of EVERY "character walk" (until it loads the sprite I guess), and also it drops to 9fps when he actions-menu is enabled. So, it's playable but not really enjoyable.

AthonXP 1800+, 512MB DDR333 RAM, radeon9000 pro 128MB : the game (with vsync enabled) runs really smoothly at 95-100fps.

Quote
I'll fix that and upload it again. (Oh no... another 7mb with my f****** 56k conection...)

Well I upload 35MBs (the "dreams" preview) with my 56kpbs modem. :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2003, 06:33:56 PM by odnorf »
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2003, 07:51:33 PM »

Hey, thanks you for our feedback! lets see...


First of all : WOW!!! This is a really good!!!! Keep up the good work!!!

Thanx! And if this is the first thing that came to your mind... I'm really happy!  ;D

Except the inventory items not translated, there is another one : just look at the "box full of knicks-knack".

Well, I fixed the inventory thingie & uploaded the game again. I'll check the knicks-knack thingie in a while... but I don't think I'm going to upload the game again just for that  ;)

A small bug : when the inventory is opened the game isn't "paused". This is not really a bug, but it would lead to strange things. For example, you can move the character if you like, you may miss some dialogue lines because the inventory is almost-full-screen, etc.

Yeah, I think there's a variable in the inventory definition for doing that, EXCLUSIVE = something , so I think that changing it to TRUE will do the trick ;). Never worried about it, tough, but I'll change it.

I really think that you should change the right-click-menu to a left-click menu (as Jan suggested). I played the game for 5 minutes and my hand hearts. I am not used to click AND hold the right mouse button all the time. If you really think that it's better to work with the right button, then please add an option for it in the menus. (And if you use the left mouse for the actions-menu, then you could use the right button for the inventory)

Yep, I prefer the setting stuff, "let the player choose" is my second name  ;D. So now I need to code radio buttons or comboboxes... oh no...  :P

A small suggestion. I always use shortcuts when they exist. Especially in an adventure game. So I would suggest to put some (near-buttons) shortcuts for the 3 actions, the inventory, the game menu, the load menu, the exit menu. It's what I did for "dreams". Maybe you could even make a settings menu were the player could adjust the shortcuts (it can be done by using the registry, it's what I am doing now for "dreams").

Yeah, I have thought about it, but I forgot...  :-[ I like shortcuts too ;D

I notice that you hvae changed the icon of the wme interprenter. How did you do it? Did you hack it?
Yep, I used Resource Hacker, you can get it here http://www.users.on.net/johnson/resourcehacker/. It's freeware, but just an advice: don't change EVERYTHING in the executable, like I have done, only change the icon and rename the executable, keep all the other info untouched. (Mnemonic, I have uploaded the updated version with only the new icon and the renamed executable and everything else as the original,  sorry for the other version.)

You might want to consider change the game's resolution to 1024x768. It's what I am doing with "dreams" and it looks so much better in big monitors (19 or 21 inches) :)
Well, too late, all the graphics are adapted to 800x600 now. And I have a 19'' monitor... and it looks ok. Anyway, who has a 19'' or 21'' monitor?  ;D

Celeron 400Mhz, 64MB RAM, intel 810 graphic chipset : the game runs at 39-38fps, which drops to 5 in the beginning of EVERY "character walk" (until it loads the sprite I guess), and also it drops to 9fps when he actions-menu is enabled. So, it's playable but not really enjoyable.

Sorry, I have triyed everything to solve the action-menu slowdown. It seems that the problem was with the sleep time of the loop. I putted it to 100ms, and in systems a bit better it seem that the game goes well. I'll recheck it, but as I said in another post, its a s*** to have a good computer for developing & testing (not for playing, of course ;))

Again, thanx for your feedback! It was really useful!
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2003, 08:16:02 PM »

Quote
Well, I fixed the inventory thingie & uploaded the game again. I'll check the knicks-knack thingie in a while... but I don't think I'm going to upload the game again just for that  

Oh... no! More downloads now... :)

Quote
Well, too late, all the graphics are adapted to 800x600 now. And I have a 19'' monitor... and it looks ok. Anyway, who has a 19'' or 21'' monitor?  

Well... it looks ok, but 1024x768 looks even better... And I have a 19inch monitor. :) The problem with the 19+ inches monitors is that IMHO they suck when they display resolutions lower than 1024x768.

Quote
Sorry, I have triyed everything to solve the action-menu slowdown. It seems that the problem was with the sleep time of the loop. I putted it to 100ms, and in systems a bit better it seem that the game goes well. I'll recheck it, but as I said in another post, its a s*** to have a good computer for developing & testing (not for playing, of course )

He! He! :) No problem here (at least for me) because my system is the second one... I just tested the game on this old computer to give you the results.
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2003, 11:51:28 AM »

OK... I just finished it!  ;D

Another thing that come to my mind (yeah, I never control my thoughts, they "come" and "go" without asking all the time :))

I believe that it would be better if Fred was not saying "this looks like a scen from a lucasarts game" but maybe something like "Hm... this scene looks awfully familiar!". In this example you don't say to the player what he has to see, but that there is something to see. You could also make some funny joke with the Detective's (Sam n' Max) door! Why miss this great oportunity?
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2003, 12:24:30 PM »

All right, I'll comment all that to the scripters, and let's see what they decide  ;D
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2003, 01:07:53 PM »

laughed my ass off when opening the fridge. ;-)
Well, that stupid rolling "animation" will be replaced with an special "I did it!"

Animation ? Hm - no I guess it was the sound that made me laughing. :)

The music theme you worked with sounds like a melody, that was (mis-)used for a German XMAS-Song (don't know if this is a international xmas-song or if you wanted it to sound like that), anyway it's really funny.
An XMAS song?? Oh my...  :-[ . I don't think it's international, at least, the first time I ever heared that song was while I was searching for MIDIs, I thought it would fit and I putted it in the game. ;D

I played the original on the piano (variations by Mozart) a long time ago, the original is "Ah, vous dirai-je Maman" (Paris, ca. 1778).

I forgot something - the melody is used in another FAMOUS song, every child learns here - it's the "alphabet song" to learn the ABC. :)

It sounds funny anyway and it's not EXACTLY the theme, but it sounds as if the creator wanted that song to sound similiar to it. Check this one :
http://perso.club-internet.fr/bmarcore/Tine/ME138.mid

Oh, one thing left: your second scene was inspirated by Sam&Max, right ? ;)
Yeah, you catched it.  ;)

Yeah, but I missed Fred's comment about it that odnorf mentioned here, else I wouldn't have asked...

Oh, and - i'd prefer a left click menu too. The right-click could be very useful to switch to the inventory (like in The Longest Journey), but I could live with it. It just gets confusing, when you try to do use the things it the same way in the inventory - where it is the LEFT button...
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2003, 04:03:39 PM »

In the first scene there are 43 scripts running and in the second scene there are 20 scripts. What is so difference between those two scenes that need all those extra 23 scripts?
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2003, 04:40:00 PM »

In the first scene there are 43 scripts running and in the second scene there are 20 scripts. What is so difference between those two scenes that need all those extra 23 scripts?
Lots of interactive objects within the scene, I suppose...?
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2003, 05:06:10 PM »

Two more things:
1)Why do you have "global music" & "music" volumes? What's the difference between those two?
2)When the game starts, if I press the F1 (or esc) the game skips the introduction and goes to the first scene. Is this a bug?
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2003, 11:40:48 PM »

1)Why do you have "global music" & "music" volumes? What's the difference between those two?

Global music and Music volume?? As far as I know, the only volume controls that the menu has is Global volume (Game.SetGlobalMasterVolume), Music Volume (Game.SetGlobalMusicVolume) Effects Volume (Game.SetGlobalSFXVolume) and the unavailable Speech Volume, and that's all!

2)When the game starts, if I press the F1 (or esc) the game skips the introduction and goes to the first scene. Is this a bug?

No, it's not a bug! In fact, it's a feature I added. It's useful to have the possibility of skipping cinematic scenes, don't you think?  ;)
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #15 on: July 08, 2003, 08:20:16 AM »

Quote
Global music and Music volume?? As far as I know, the only volume controls that the menu has is Global volume (Game.SetGlobalMasterVolume), Music Volume (Game.SetGlobalMusicVolume) Effects Volume (Game.SetGlobalSFXVolume) and the unavailable Speech Volume, and that's all!

Oops... sorry, my mistake! Anyway, I still don't believe that you really need the GlobalMasterVolume...

Quote
No, it's not a bug! In fact, it's a feature I added. It's useful to have the possibility of skipping cinematic scenes, don't you think?  

I just thought that it was a bug because I didn't find it documented nowhere. It's good to have the possibility to skip some cinematics but I don't believe that F1 is the best solution!  Make this ESC. (I know that esc works too, but it opens the menu too, disable this maybe - hm... it seems that I suggest to you everything I have done in "dreams" :))
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #16 on: July 08, 2003, 10:28:01 AM »

Quote
Anyway, I still don't believe that you really need the GlobalMasterVolume...

Well... I think it's useful for keeping the volume low, and still be able of hearing the sounds over the music and vice-versa... Anyway, I like Options! Options! OPTIONS!!!!  ;D

Quote
It's good to have the possibility to skip some cinematics but I don't believe that F1 is the best solution!  Make this ESC. (I know that esc works too, but it opens the menu too, disable this maybe)


hehe, this happends because the only thing I made was adding the ESC key to the open menu code in game.script, and modifiying it a bit for the cinematic skip feature. I'll make two independent if's, one for the esc, and one for the F1, to solve it.

Quote
(I know that esc works too, but it opens the menu too, disable this maybe - hm... it seems that I suggest to you everything I have done in "dreams" :))

That's why i'm taking note of all of them  ;)
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Fixed PreAlpha Uploaded
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2003, 05:10:05 PM »

AllRight, I've uploaded again the prealpha, but now with the new event-based code, so there's (theorycally...) no slowdowns (or at least, less slowdowns...) Please, someone, download the PreAlpha and gimme feedback... over all, notice the FPS when the right-hold menu is up (no time for coding the button choose...) and when the inventory is up... thanx!
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #18 on: July 11, 2003, 06:15:46 PM »

Normal: 345 FPS
Menu: 330 FPS
Inventory: 249 FPS

This is for windowed mode.

It runs at steady 85 FPS when running fullscreen (vsync enabled).
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #19 on: July 11, 2003, 07:51:44 PM »

Great!! Thanx Jan for testing it!

Quote
Inventory: 249 FPS

Mhhh....  ::) Nice weather don't you think??  ;D ;D
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #20 on: July 11, 2003, 08:48:17 PM »

Nah, it's too hot for my taste... :P
IMHO 249 FPS is more than you'll ever need :)
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2003, 10:44:03 PM »

Tested on the old computer (the one with i810 chipset). I will test it on my computer too when I get home (in 1,2 or 3 days... yeah! I am at my girlfriends home now, so no reason to leave soon - if you know what I mean :) )

Normal:37fps (drops down to 7 when starting to walk but that's because of the lousy 3d chipset)

Actions Menu:the same, no slowdowns, great work!

Inventory:26fps (the "framedrops" are not really important for the inventory, but why not have it working with no slowdowns since you can? just increase the sleep value in the inventory.script -that I know that you use :) - a little)

Animated cursor:37, no slowdowns (it's solved 100% :))

Oh.... and there is a little bug in this version. When I pick up the bag it has inside ALL the game's items (even the wme book from the wme_demo project! haven't you deleted it yet from the project?). So no need to pick anything... just unlock the door with the keys! :)

Quote
Nah, it's too hot for my taste...

The temperature in greece is above 30-35C now. A week ago it was at 40-43C for 4 days. THAT'S what I call HOT!
« Last Edit: July 11, 2003, 10:45:42 PM by odnorf »
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #22 on: July 12, 2003, 01:34:52 AM »

Quote
Oh.... and there is a little bug in this version. When I pick up the bag it has inside ALL the game's items (even the wme book from the wme_demo project! haven't you deleted it yet from the project?). So no need to pick anything... just unlock the door with the keys!

WHOOOOOOOPS!!! oh no... not another 14 meg upload for that crap... (I must upload the spanish & english version...  :'()
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #23 on: July 12, 2003, 07:42:15 AM »

Inventory:26fps (the "framedrops" are not really important for the inventory, but why not have it working with no slowdowns since you can? just increase the sleep value in the inventory.script -that I know that you use :) - a little)

This inventory script is used to determine the mouse cursor is outside the inventory window, right?
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odnorf

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #24 on: July 12, 2003, 10:16:53 AM »

Inventory:26fps (the "framedrops" are not really important for the inventory, but why not have it working with no slowdowns since you can? just increase the sleep value in the inventory.script -that I know that you use :) - a little)

This inventory script is used to determine the mouse cursor is outside the inventory window, right?

AFAIK when the cursor is on/over the inventory it checks when the mouse goes outside of it, and closes it. So no need for a small sleep value here.

McCoy, before you upload the new alpha versions, check if you can make the inventory to pause the game when is active. (As I have suggested before... :) And ofcourse if you thing that this should be done.)
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2003, 10:45:16 AM »

BTW, the inventory script is not a loop, thus it does not have a sleep time. Here's the code:
Code: [Select]
on "MouseLeave"
{
   var ActObj = Game.ActiveObject;   
   if (ActObj.Type != "item")
   {
       phantom.Reset();//this entity handles the text when you look a object and all that.
       Game.InventoryVisible = false;
        }
}

That's all. So I think that the slowdown is caused because de polycount increase... I can't think in anything else...

Quote
McCoy, before you upload the new alpha versions, check if you can make the inventory to pause the game when is active. (As I have suggested before...  And ofcourse if you thing that this should be done.)

Well, I made TRUE the EXCLUSIVE property in the inventory definition... I noticed no change, so I don't know it's purpose (Mnemonic...?). Then I loaded the inventory window in systemexclusive mode... and it messed it all. First, it paused the music, and I want the scene music in the inventory too... second, the right-hold menu, the wincaption, and anything that is not located in the inventory.script does not work, because it's in systemexclusive. Thirth, when you hide the inventory window, the game keeps paused, because it's only hidden, not unloaded. So I think that the inventory is good the way it's now ;)
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odnorf

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2003, 11:20:26 AM »

That's all. So I think that the slowdown is caused because de polycount increase... I can't think in anything else...

Hm... that's strange. I just checked the polycount increase and it's not important (about +50) and it's the same as the polycount increase when the actions-menu is up, which has NO slowdowns. ??? Anyway, it's not really important. Who cares if the game looses 30% of its fps when the inventory is visible? (Oh... and the game has the SAME slowdowns when the gamemenus are enabled, but the polycount increase in this case is 1300+)

So I think that the inventory is good the way it's now ;)

The only problem that I can think of is in cases that you want to do something fast or stop the currently enabled actions (talking, walking, etc) for any other reason. But ofcourse this is not really a problem if you don't plan to have time-limited puzzles in the game.

I really would like to learn what the exclusive property is about thought. :)
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2003, 11:55:53 AM »

Yeah, it's pretty strange, I don't know why it slowdowns when there's no new loop...

Quote
The only problem that I can think of is in cases that you want to do something fast or stop the currently enabled actions (talking, walking, etc) for any other reason. But ofcourse this is not really a problem if you don't plan to have time-limited puzzles in the game.

Well, just adding a actor.reset(); when the inventory opens you can stop the actor completely.
And... hey, the non-stop inventory can be seen as an added task for increasing the difficulty in a time-limited puzzle, don't you think?  ;D
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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2003, 11:56:45 AM »

I really would like to learn what the exclusive property is about thought. :)
It means that the inventory closes automatically when you click outside it. Nothing more, nothing less...
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odnorf

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2003, 12:04:13 PM »

Yeah, it's pretty strange, I don't know why it slowdowns when there's no new loop...

Nevermind... it's not real problem. But I'll take a look at it when you release the sources to "fred aplha" because I am a very curious guy. :) (ofcourse it would be difficult to read the spanish comments, but I'll do my best even without them)

And... hey, the non-stop inventory can be seen as an added task for increasing the difficulty in a time-limited puzzle, don't you think?  ;D

In this case the puzzles are going to be unsolvable-unless-you-are-as-fast-as-the-speed-of-light  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: July 12, 2003, 12:04:45 PM by odnorf »
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McCoy

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Re:Fred English Public PreAlpha ready!! (II)
« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2003, 12:50:15 PM »

Quote
In this case the puzzles are going to be unsolvable-unless-you-are-as-fast-as-the-speed-of-light  

Well, it could be possible to add the time you pass in the inventory  to the time of the time-based puzzle, or even stop the puzzle timer while the inventory is up, just checking it... I don't think it would be difficult. Anyway, the first time-based puzzle would not be added till its animations are ready, and that could take a lot of time... :P
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