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Author Topic: question of style  (Read 18972 times)

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gfx johnny

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question of style
« on: May 30, 2004, 02:14:53 PM »

Hi Wintermuties ;D

Im doing some graphic tests at the moment to find a nice style for an adventure game. At first, i wanted to create something like Dott,  some kind of comic-style. But right now, i dont now what way to go, so i need some help, your help :)

If you would be so kind, please take a look at these pictures:

Some of you may know this already (its the same i showed in the channel), its a more realistic approach:
Pic 1

Some of you suggested to try out cel shading, i did that before, but i gave it another try; this one has lots of mistakes, but shows a combination of comic and realism:
Pic 2

At last i tried to create some classic comic look:
Pic 3

So what do you think about it? Which way to go? Perhaps quite a different one? I guess it depends on the game, the setting. But what do you prefer generally?


Furthermore im interested in your overall opinion about adventure graphics.

Which graphic style do you like the most?


Thx for your time! :)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2004, 02:16:53 PM by gfx johnny »
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McCoy

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Re: question of style
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2004, 03:08:32 PM »

Well, to be honest, I always preferred full 2D, hand-drawed graphics for graphic adventures. I think that Runaway is the best example of this kind of graphics, very well achieved. But, I think that the backgrounds must be same than characters, so, if you're going to use 3D characters, then I think you should use a more realisting 3D rendering rather than toon like and all that. Continuing with Runaway, I never thought its cell-shaded characters made in 3D fitted with the awesome 2D hand-drawed graphics. Something like the charactes of Monkey Island 3 would have done WAY better, just my opinion of course.

So, that said, my favourite one is toon01.jpg, followed by toon02.jpg, and maybe I'd prefer toon02.jpg if it finally gets better (yes, I know it's not a well-worked scene, just a test, so that's what I'm saying), BUT, if you're going to use 3D prerendered characters... I'd stick to r01.jpg. That's my opinion, hope it helps :).

Anyway, no matter what you choose, PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP!  ;)

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gfx johnny

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Re: question of style
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2004, 03:41:38 PM »

Thx for your comment :)

I want to use prerendered 3d characters. But they can look the same as the cel shaded 3d background (after all, its all just geometry), so i guess it would fit in there, too. I will have to test a little bit further. Perhaps im not able to create fitting toon characters, then i will follow your suggestion and go with the realistic way. Perhaps i will drop 3d entirely and try to draw a screne :) I cant draw that good, but im used to graphic apps like photoshop etc.   

I must admit i didnt play runaway yet. Its looks great, but the characters in there seems to be drawn, not toon shaded? Im confused... well, i guess i must see it in action :) 

EDIT: examined the runaway screenshots and found 3d models of the characters ;)  but i'd say they just look great and fit in there... though you have a different opinion ;)


     
« Last Edit: May 30, 2004, 03:47:01 PM by gfx johnny »
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FinnishBoy

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Re: question of style
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2004, 09:47:50 PM »

Well, I prefer 3d, but old good 2d-graphics are of course more classical. I'm currently using funny-styled 3d in my project and I think my next project will be also in 3d, but with more realistic style. Beauty is in the watcher's eyes, I say
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Jerrot

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Re: question of style
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2004, 10:40:57 AM »

Uh, somehow I missed the thread.
The links aren't working anymore though.  :'(
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McCoy

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Re: question of style
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2004, 12:33:07 PM »

They still work for me... and no, they're not in the cache, I can see them slowly-loading with my wonderful 56k connection  ???
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gfx johnny

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Re: question of style
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2004, 05:50:02 PM »

Yep, same here, still working... hmm.   ???
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Mnemonic

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Re: question of style
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2004, 06:00:13 PM »

It didn't work in the morning, I tried that too.
And btw I think the third picture is most "cartoony", I like it. Number 2 is kinda too rough for my taste. Of course it's given by the geometry mostly, but still...
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Jerrot

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Re: question of style
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2004, 09:32:28 AM »

Ah, ok, they work now.

So... in reverse order.
Number 3 is good from style and shading for a comic style, but I can't judge it too much more because that green bites my eyes in a way I can't stare on the monitor too long. ;)
Number 2... is IMHO a great style, I wouldn't think its cel shading. The edges are somewhat broken (but you wrote about mistakes in it), what disturbs me here is the clean and structured wallpaper texture.
Number 1 is still my favorite, anyway I'd love to see this picture again with a little less shinyness/reflection of the wood parts, especially of the room edges. If those reflections weren't there, I'd not be sure if it's 3D or not - which is - again IMHO - perfect. ;)

Glad to see new art here. :) Go on, go on!  8)
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Nihil

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Re: question of style
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2004, 10:21:19 AM »

I like the first and third most, though I agree with Jerrot, the green produces Eye-cancer :-) With another colour no. 3 would be perfect.
No 2 is not my cup of tea as I'm no fan of cell-shading at all.

But a question - as all the scenes have a strong comic-style, wouldn't it be way easier to draw them by hand and colour them with a graphic program then to model them in 3d?

And what style I love most in general depends on the game itself: for comedy adventures comic-style is just perfect, but for "serious" games I prefer 3d-graphics.

gfx johnny

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Re: question of style
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2004, 11:18:02 AM »

Well, the host of the pictures seems to be offline sometimes, sorry guys.   :-[

Thx Jerrot! I always thought, hmm something is strange looking... and indeed, it was the specular level of the wood  ;D And lol, it wasn't only the wood.. everything had a high specular level... i forgot to change it in _every_ material ;)  But only the wood looked suspicious ;D

The green colour of picture 3 is just a placeholder... i don't think its so bad, but i guess after all i'm the only person of that opinion, huh? ;) Ok, please ignore the colour as long as you can *g*, its just about the style.

Quote
I like the first and third most [...] No 2 is not my cup of tea as I'm no fan of cell-shading at all.
I would say picture number 3 is also cell-shaded, hmm. But i guess its looking more like a cartoon, so this style seems to be ok for you.

Quote
But a question - as all the scenes have a strong comic-style, wouldn't it be way easier to draw them by hand and colour them with a graphic program then to model them in 3d?
I would say picture number 1 is not necessarily associated with a comic-style. I created the textures with that in mind, so the wood for example is not that realistic. And i used just one colour for floor & ceiling, so this may be a reason to think so. But i suppose its not that easy to create this in a graphics app. At least, the style would differ. But on the other side, Jerrot eventually thinks you couldnt recognise the 3d-heritage, so maybe im used to my 3d-pics and am a little bit blind about them ;D Thats why i need your feedback :) 
By comparison, picture 3 is very easy to do without using 3d, sure. It would be easier, too.

The main reason for me using 3d: im lacking skill in drawing ;) And im used to work with 3d apps for a long time, several years. There are other benefits, too. You can reuse lots of elements in other scenes, you can change perspective within a second, change materials on the fly, change screen resolution fast, not even to think about character animation. Of course you need some time to create it in the first place.

Quote
And what style I love most in general depends on the game itself: for comedy adventures comic-style is just perfect, but for "serious" games I prefer 3d-graphics.
Thats comprehensible. So you wouldnt say picture 1 is realistic enough for a serious adventure? It had to be more photo-realistic? I think it would be not too difficult to change that, perhaps other materials, bump maps and so on.


Here is picture number 1 with better specular settings (beware, its 1024x768).



Thx all for your comments btw - its appreciated!  :D
   
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Nihil

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Re: question of style
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2004, 11:43:27 AM »

The green colour of picture 3 is just a placeholder... i don't think its so bad, but i guess after all i'm the only person of that opinion, huh? ;) Ok, please ignore the colour as long as you can *g*, its just about the style.

I just put on my sun-glasses and -tada- no problem anymore ;-)


Quote
I would say picture number 3 is also cell-shaded, hmm. But i guess its looking more like a cartoon, so this style seems to be ok for you.

Yes, I wasn't clear about that point - I mean the cell-shading where still can see it's 3d ... No. 3 looks like "real" 2d in 3d ... if anyone knows what I mean  ;)

Quote
I would say picture number 1 is not necessarily associated with a comic-style.

Not the textures, I meant the geometry - thats very comic-like, at least for me.

Quote
The main reason for me using 3d: im lacking skill in drawing ;)

That sounds familar to me :-)

[qoute]
And im used to work with 3d apps for a long time, several years. There are other benefits, too. You can reuse lots of elements in other scenes, you can change perspective within a second, change materials on the fly, change screen resolution fast, not even to think about character animation. Of course you need some time to create it in the first place.
Quote

Ok, thats a good argument.


Quote
Thats comprehensible. So you wouldnt say picture 1 is realistic enough for a serious adventure? It had to be more photo-realistic? I think it would be not too difficult to change that, perhaps other materials, bump maps and so on.

As written above, it's mainly the geometry, not the textures - it looks a bit more comic-like, the round walls and stuff. (btw, with serious I don't mean good enough, commercial quality or something like this, I'm just regarding to the story)

FinnishBoy

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Re: question of style
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2004, 12:16:42 PM »

If I would be you, I would use number 1. I like 3d
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gfx johnny

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Re: question of style
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2004, 12:47:22 PM »

Quote
I just put on my sun-glasses and -tada- no problem anymore ;-)
ROFL!  ;D I hope no one has to use sunglasses to play my adventure  :D 


Quote
Not the textures, I meant the geometry - thats very comic-like, at least for me. [...]
btw, with serious I don't mean good enough, commercial quality or something like this, I'm just regarding to the story)

I caught it this way :)
I tried to mimic some elements of comics and well known games like Dott. Im not sure, though if i want to create a funny comic adventure or something more serious. Im playing around with the idea of making something more serious. Do you think i should avoid this style of geometry when making an unsmiling/serious adventure? Ok, picture 1 looks like some kind of tree house *g* instead of a classic room. But what about some small adjustments?

I think at the moment i'll use 3d graphics with classic geometry and not so realistic textures, plus cell-shaded characters perhaps. Or just classic 3d characters, im not sure yet...   




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Nihil

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Re: question of style
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2004, 01:38:44 PM »

I caught it this way :)
 Do you think i should avoid this style of geometry when making an unsmiling/serious adventure? Ok, picture 1 looks like some kind of tree house *g* instead of a classic room. But what about some small adjustments?

Well, at least I would avaiod it, I think. A bit "unusual" geometry :-) should be ok to get some unique style, but I wouldn't use too much for a serious game. But that's only my oppinion, don't know what the average gamer thinks about it ... normally, my taste isn't very common at all  ;)

In the end you should use the style that you self prefer most ... I think thats more important than trying to match everyones taste which isn't possible either. And if you work in a style you are not really satisfied with it will probably loose the interest in your own game :-)
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