Wintermute Engine Forum

Wintermute Engine => Technical forum => Topic started by: Mnemonic on December 20, 2008, 02:00:02 PM

Title: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on December 20, 2008, 02:00:02 PM
Hello muties,

since some of you are asking about the future of WME, here's what's going on.

WME 1.x is currently in maintenance-only mode. That means, it will only receive bugfixes and possibly some minor feature changes, but no large new features are planned.

I'm now (finally) fully concentrating on WME 2.0, which is going to be a major rewrite of the engine and tools. It was a tough decision (I will not go into details here), but I strongly believe it is necessary to ensure future growth and expansibility of WME.
I'll post more information on the project when I have actually something to show, but for now it's very early in development.


A mini-FAQ...

Q: When is WME 2 released?
A: When it's done. Seriously, I can't answer that. I'm only working on WME in my spare time, therefore it's pretty much impossible to make any solid plans. It will surely take at least months to have something presentable.

Q: Should I wait for WME 2 to start production of my game?
A: Definitely not. If WME 1.x provides the features you need now, by all means use it.

Q: Will WME 2 be backward compatible with WME 1.x projects?
A: No, it's not a design goal. There may be some conversion tools for easier transition, but nothing is sure at the moment.

Q: Will WME 2 support (insert your favourite feature here)?
A: It's too early to discuss specific features. Let's just say I intend to use features that worked well in WME 1.x and expand on them, creating a state-of-the-art game engine. Again, I will release more info when I'm ready.


More questions? Post them in this thread.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Birdline on December 20, 2008, 10:40:21 PM
Good to hear this,
Q1. Will WME 2 be a more 3D engine, or more a better WME 1?
Q2. Will WME 2 still be free (donate)?
Spyros
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Catacomber on December 21, 2008, 04:05:59 AM
What does "state of the art" mean?  :  )

Fully 3d?

Portable to pda or smartphone or something else?

I think everyone should be curious about this.  :  )

I know what it means to work on something in the time you have available (you don't get much sleep) so I think everyone should be very grateful to you for this. 
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Darky on December 21, 2008, 04:49:41 PM
Glad to hear you will develop the engine further!

I hope it will have some more 3D Possibilitys like Dynamic Shadows and Shaders. Maybe even just as an optional feature so that the ones who don't need those can disable the enhanced 3D stuff and reduce the system requirements for their game to lower end machines instantly :)

It would be fine with me if the new WME Engine (in case it is stable and feature-rich enough) would charge a bit money for the usage in commercial games OR for support on extra features in form of modules. I love the free aspect on WME 1 but there always are a few things I am missing like different OS compatibility (Linux and especially Mac has great customer bases) and maybe more 3D Formats (.X and the Panda Exporter for 3Dsmax can make me sometimes very angry when nothing really works out as it should. Exporting could be much easier like with non-adventure related game engines)

So if money could help you to bring those things and make WME even more powerful than it already is - I would pay for it and be happy about it. Maybe think about modules for some unique extra features and charge for them. I don't know what would work out the best way for you to get a bit of reward and investment money to develop the engine further.

Sad thing just is Indies don't have much money and they pay hardly, so at least something needs left to be free to try out, the prices shouldn't be too high and there should be somehow more incentive to pay for something.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: metamorphium on December 22, 2008, 03:30:09 AM
great stuff. I'd hope for some better sound support (eg. open AL) with 5.1 capabilities and such. :)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Spellbreaker on December 22, 2008, 02:43:13 PM
I would simply use two license models. First : Free Game / Free Engine, second, commercial game, pay for engine once.

Of course then Mnemonic has to pay taxes and all, and it's always a question if it's worth it. ( At least here in Germany it's a quite big bureaucratic act, so it consumes too much time for small money...)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Derrek3D on December 22, 2008, 03:39:26 PM
Will the new engine still be able to produce 2.5D games with pre-rendered backgrounds like the current version of the engine does, or will it be 3D only?

Thanks.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jihar on December 22, 2008, 04:07:06 PM
Hello muties,
since some of you are asking about the future of WME, here's what's going on.
...

Thats a great news!

It will be superious to see features that cant be added by users. For example - i can add midi support, some extended sound features (like 5.1 support or DS3D\OpenAL\EAX), multiplayer support and many many more - i can add such features by myself. But i cant expand engine render. Multitexturing\Shaders\Post-effects etc - its almost impossible to add such features to wme 1.x. Its the only feature i really need in wme :)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: atm_deev on December 23, 2008, 03:39:16 PM
But i cant expand engine render. Multitexturing\Shaders\Post-effects etc - its almost impossible to add such features to wme 1.x. Its the only feature i really need in wme :)

Yes. Otherwise, it may not be sold.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on December 23, 2008, 04:45:36 PM
Q1. Will WME 2 be a more 3D engine, or more a better WME 1?
Yes, the plan is for it to be a bit "more 3D" :) However...


Will the new engine still be able to produce 2.5D games with pre-rendered backgrounds like the current version of the engine does, or will it be 3D only?
I believe the demand for 2.5D is still quite large. But unlike WME1, which started 2D and 3D features have been added later (for apparent reasons), I think it's better to treat 2.5D as a simplified case of full-3D.


Q2. Will WME 2 still be free (donate)?
I can't tell at the moment. It depends on many factors.


Portable to pda or smartphone or something else?
While portability is much more important nowadays than it was when WME 1 started, I'm only considering "fully-fledged" platforms for now.


But i cant expand engine render. Multitexturing\Shaders\Post-effects etc - its almost impossible to add such features to wme 1.x. Its the only feature i really need in wme :)

Yes. Otherwise, it may not be sold.
It doesn't seem that the lack of shaders prevented you from selling several wme-based games, did it?
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jyujinkai on December 23, 2008, 05:00:48 PM
my 2 cents.

I would like to see, if possible, more controle of video backdrops and stuff... pause, play frame range, loops etc etc all controlable from scripting... also in addition animated 3D cameras and lighting, so you can have pre-rendered camera moves and 3D actors... ... if that all make sense

Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jerrot on December 23, 2008, 05:15:48 PM
Yes. Otherwise, it may not be sold.
It doesn't seem that the lack of shaders prevented you from selling several wme-based games, did it?

And - speaking of commercial titles - you guys hopefully donated Mnemonic a fair win percentage for the engine. ;)

I mean... just to be fair. Mnemonic did all this over the years and gives it away for free. For free! Yay! (Can't decide between  ::slug and  ::rock ...)
(I got no money from Mnemonic to write this! ;))

EDIT: I forgot the actual message: HOORAY for WME2!  HOORAY for Mnemonic! ::beer
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: atm_deev on December 24, 2008, 07:19:58 AM
It doesn't seem that the lack of shaders prevented you from selling several wme-based games, did it?

Yes. The lack of shaders, we do not prevented a number of games on WME. But you are wrong, if you think that I have benefited from this. Consider me a good patron.

p.s.
I assure you that if WME maintain shaders, the price it would be multiplied.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jihar on December 24, 2008, 07:45:02 AM
But unlike WME1, which started 2D and 3D features have been added later (for apparent reasons), I think it's better to treat 2.5D as a simplified case of full-3D.

I was happy to hear this! There remains only one thing to do - wait :)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on December 24, 2008, 12:35:55 PM
To support atm-deev, just think about So Blonde, which left WME because of the graphics, while it seems to still use the core idea.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: atm_deev on December 24, 2008, 12:49:17 PM
Realizing that WME free, I want to mention one important fact: do shader support - this is not a requirement (!) And did not even request, but only modest proposal. Shaders, much given to games created on WME. Sorry if offended anyone.

p.s.
(Jan && WME) == very_cool
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: adh on December 24, 2008, 07:35:50 PM
I think WME is great and for sure it will be greater.

About 3d, well, I think more 3d models support like obj model will be great, because almost any  3d application support it and it is a txt file, not a binary file, easy to create scripts to manipulate it. Another good thing, I am only thinking, is bhv support for animations, and some support for programs, like poser, a great tool, you can get it very cheap (Poser 6 $29) or free (poser 5 and Daz studio)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on December 26, 2008, 04:43:55 PM
Maybe you should do it like miranda: Build a core engine with tons of plugins, and deliver a basic set of plugins as the "basic engine". You don't have to maintain all the plugins, but: if someone wants ogre for graphics -- change the graphics plugin. If someone wants lua for scripting -- change the scripting interface plugin. If the new engine consists of swappable parts, it will be easier (for professional studios with a lot of manpower) to exchange parts with the functionality they need.  And maybe (just dreaming) theese companies give their plugins back to the community.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Connway on December 26, 2008, 04:54:47 PM
Sounds awesome! However you decide to build the engine, I have faith that it will be awesome. ;)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Silverbristle on December 27, 2008, 06:57:03 AM
The curent WME engine is great mainly because it has a neat user interface that easy to understand and quick to use. Support for more 3d file formats would speed up development for some. Because it would allow a user to get their favorite file format imported straight into wintermute rather than potentially having to pass through multiple programs converting the format.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on December 27, 2008, 10:19:08 AM
atm_deev: No offense taken. It's just that the development is not primarily driven by the vision of profit (I can think of easier and faster ways of making money :)) That said, it would be silly if a game engine developed in 2009 didn't support programmable pipeline.

sychron: That's really not how WME(2) is designed. Scripting is a fundamental part of the engine and too much is built around it to allow for easy swapping.

Silverbristle: IMO having one format that is well supported by major 3D packages is better than half-assed support for multitude of formats with all their quirks and limitations...
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on January 05, 2009, 04:27:36 PM
The idea was NOT to replace the scripting engine.
The idea was to abstract script commands from command tokens, and enabling third party script compilers (and runtime translators) to be swapped in. Given the token list it would be easy to set up lua scripting or pascal scripting or whatever strange developers want to use.

And ... I see, everyone is going 3D nowadays, but always remember: The little kid in the backroom of his parents flat, trying to do a little cool adventure all by himself, may be HINDERED by requiring to model 3D stuff. So the basic 2D concept is still vital in theese days ;-)
But -- speaking plugins again -- making the "scene rendering module" a plugin, it would be possible to swap the simple 2,5D background renderer for a full 3D thing -- if someone dares developing. But -- this may have made So Blonde a wintermute game ;-(


Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on January 05, 2009, 06:16:54 PM
If, in theory, someone would write a compiler of any language, and the compiler would generate WME bytecode, it would be certainly possible. Actually, the initial plan for WME1 was to allow this, that's why the script compiler is in a separate DLL. Through the years I realized it's not such a good idea and in WME2 the script compiler is integrated directly into the engine.

Regarding 3D&stuff, we'll see, we'll see :) Don't jump to conclusions too hastily.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on January 05, 2009, 10:13:10 PM
I had a closer look at Lua today, and it introduces a nice concept: it "hooks" into the host language via function definitions. When creating the lua interpreter object, you tell it "take this function (pointer) and bind it to this lua function name".

So if you provide some kind of WME API offering all the functions that can be accessed by WME scripts, it would be very easy to hook a Lua interpreter to this api, for example, without changing your own script engine concept.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: mylesblasonato on January 06, 2009, 01:25:28 AM
Fantastic news, it will be great to get some cell shade going. Also I think physics would be a great feature for mini-games in Point and Click Adventures.

Can't wait for it!
Cheers ::beer
Myles Blasonato.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on January 06, 2009, 01:00:43 PM
Physics just for mini games? I think that's not worth the effort ... If you really need physics for MINI games, you can calculate the stuff in the scripts, it's not that much.

If you really need "builtin physics", you can offer them via plugin, even in the current version of WME.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: FogGobbler on January 11, 2009, 07:44:03 PM
Hi to all WME-addicts and our WME Mnemonic!

I´m so glad to hear that a new WME is being developed  ::thumbup

Just some thoughts and ideas I´d love to see in the future version:

- per pixel lighting of the characters with dynamic (soft) shadows
- light effects the background images
- shaders / normal mapping for detailed characters
- shaders for reflecting surfaces (mirrors, floors...)
- scriptable camera and zoomable backgrounds (like in "geheimakte 2")

I hope these things could be done..

Best regards,
Oliver
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Spellbreaker on January 11, 2009, 08:13:08 PM
More options for the Characters would be great, like toonshaders and stuff. Light effects in the Background images? You can do that easily with creating small theora Videos for things like torches that create some flickering light on the wall. I personally don't want that WME goes the way of a 3D Engine, since there are enough of them.

Actually in geheimakte 2 the whole engine is able to scale the game through different resolutions. That would be a really great feature I am really looking forward to. I wrote an Email to the developers some time ago about asking how they prepare they scenes, if they pre-render it for different resolutions, or if they have realtime scaling.

That would rock :)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jyujinkai on January 11, 2009, 09:01:44 PM
Silverbristle: IMO having one format that is well supported by major 3D packages is better than half-assed support for multitude of formats with all their quirks and limitations...

I think thisis the way to go for 3D support. Let the aniamtion packadges deal with teh conversion and filetypes and have a single pipline from all these apps into wme... soudns a much better way to go.

There is alos teh COLLADA file format. A lot of 3D apps use this so it can be exported from most packadges, and it supports a TON of features that panda.X dose not.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Baron on January 16, 2009, 02:24:37 AM
Thanks Mnemonic that is fantastic news. WME and the great community around it is helping me learn scripting. I can't express how grateful I am for the great documentation, support and kind explanations that yourself and many of the members of the WME dev community have provided.
Long live WME!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: booboo on January 21, 2009, 09:27:03 PM
We have seen the production of many 3D engines. The quickest developments we have seen  have been about three years between the first screenshots showing the proposed features and the final release. And then they start adding the usability features and art pipeline. And that's with the team working full time.

If the plan is to go full-3D, wouldn't it be easier to create an adventure game-creating toolkit for an existing, low-cost 3D engine like Torque, Unity, Irrlicht, C4...?
I mean "easier" in the sense of focusing on P&C adventure-creating tools instead of the time-consuming 3D effects that everyone else is already offering; not in the sense of "easier to program".

Some of those already have toolkits that sell for almost the same price as the underlying engine. There are currently no affordable 3D engines in existence (that I know of) that allow creating adventure games with the ease and non-programmer-friendliness of WME. They can surely see that there's an entire new user base they could catch there. Considering the track record of someone who has already produced a tool of the power of WME, the producers of those engines would probably jump at the chance of helping with the integration of an adventure-creating front end of this power.

Although, well, if there are unique needs in the WME(2) plan that call for a new engine, I'm sure, from all that we've seen over the years, that it's a great plan and well worth the wait.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on January 21, 2009, 10:56:01 PM
The main problem about long waiting times is:
WME finally hit the shelves. There are a bunch of commercial WME titles in the stores right now. WME is "active".
Dropping this status to "inactive" due to a long development cycle for an own 3D engine would be quite counter-useful.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: odnorf on January 21, 2009, 11:11:27 PM
There are currently no affordable 3D engines in existence (that I know of) that allow creating adventure games with the ease and non-programmer-friendliness of WME. They can surely see that there's an entire new user base they could catch there.

I'm not the engine developer (so please don't quote what I'm saying) but afaik that's the plan (among others). Real-time 3D (without forgetting 2D & 2.5D) with the same usefulness of wme1.

@Sychron
At some point there has to be a "rewrite". This is a rule for every engine. wme1.x is of course not dead. The availability of source code "screams" the opposite. But some decisions have to be made at some point about the future.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: FogGobbler on January 22, 2009, 10:21:51 AM
Hey, guys!

Well, I must say, I´m getting a bit confused now, because everybody is talking about the "new 3D engine" and I get the impression that people are getting mixed up with realtime 3D ? la Farcry and modified 2.5D engine ? la "Geheimakte 2".

A Vampyr Story, for example, is a 2.5D (prerendered backgrounds & 3D characters) adventure which was developed using a 3D engine.

So, to clear this point, is "WME 2" going to be a real time 3D engine, like say "Memento mori" uses or will it still use the 2.5D technique, but based on a 3D engine for better lighting effects, shaders, shadows, character animation, wide screen support, dynamic lights & camera and such things?

I personally really hope that WME 2 will stay 2.5D, because if you want to create a realtime 3D adventure, there are other tools on the market which are afordable. Sure, they won´t be so nice and simple as an engine that was specially developped for adventures, but it can be done, without too much trouble.

But there is nothing on the market to develop a modern 2.5D adventure (sure if you want to pay 20.000 €, then try ADGS4 ;-)) ).

Bye,
Oli





Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: odnorf on January 22, 2009, 10:40:30 AM
@FogGobbler

Don't worry, the plan afaik is to keep the 2.5D functionality. That doesn't mean the engine can't move forward, having other uses as well. ;) In any case, wme1 isn't going to vanish now that's lgpl. For the example feature list of codename:wme2 we all have to wait. It's still at a very early stage in development.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: JayBee on January 25, 2009, 01:23:33 PM
Great news!
I hope that next big release of WME will support Mac and Linux  ::beer
It would also be great if the project was more open as to have its own mailinglist, bug-tracker and vcs (https://launchpad.net/+tour/index) so maybe others could contribute more easily.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to it!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: IcePoP on January 25, 2009, 06:11:44 PM
Excellent news! Just been experimenting myself with the WME 1.8.6 and it is awesome - thanks for such a great tool for us to use for free. Just two things I'd like to point out/request.

1. Do commercial games created with this engine give a percentage back to the WME dev team? If not then I think they should do - put it into a big pot and let the ppl writing the plug-ins and extras use it for the future development of WME.

2. Comparing this to flash (I know I shouldn't!) but it would be nice to see the inclusion of a video format that would serve as a background or part of - rather than animated images - for example the easy import of flv video into the background of flash movies.

Otherwise thanks for such a great tool and I'm hoping to start creating games and interactive stories in the near future with this and hopefully 2.0 as well.

 O0
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Spellbreaker on January 25, 2009, 06:55:33 PM
2. Comparing this to flash (I know I shouldn't!) but it would be nice to see the inclusion of a video format that would serve as a background or part of - rather than animated images - for example the easy import of flv video into the background of flash movies.

You can easily use Ogg Theora Video Format for backgrounds. It's free, portable and delivers good quality.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: IcePoP on January 25, 2009, 06:56:50 PM
aha didn't see that one - cheers Spellbreaker!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: odnorf on January 25, 2009, 08:49:20 PM
1. Do commercial games created with this engine give a percentage back to the WME dev team? If not then I think they should do - put it into a big pot and let the ppl writing the plug-ins and extras use it for the future development of WME.

It's in the license file. The engine is 100% free for commercial usage. But any user, especially commercial developers, are encouraged to donate.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jyujinkai on January 26, 2009, 08:43:49 AM
If the plan is to go full-3D, wouldn't it be easier to create an adventure game-creating toolkit for an existing, low-cost 3D engine like Torque, Unity, Irrlicht, C4...?

I think that many people here, the guys making commercial games especially, have the wrong idea. Mnem, from what I know of him, doesn't make wme to make money. In fact I have heard him say on more than one occasion "I can think of better ways to make money". This one fact changes the entire "mood" of the game engine. Sure he could probably make a game engine a lot faster doing something like what you said, it may even have better implemtation of some feature (say networking or shaders) if you did it that way.. Still it seams to me that it is more of a intellectual pursuit making this engine for mnem and his coding mates. This is like a hobby. He wants to build a game engine from scratch with his new idea.. well because he wants to, it is that simple. Time restrictions, strict coding roadmaps, who is waiting or it... these are not really even considerations. In fact I suspect that 1/2 the reason he doesn't charge for it is so he has the freedom to do things this way.. or say go "man I cam sick of this I will not code for 3 months while I ride a motor bike across Europe". Like it said in the original post, do not hold your breath for wme2. It will take a LONG time before you see anything.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: IcePoP on January 26, 2009, 11:49:36 PM
TBH the world would be a much better place (and cheaper!) if all folks were as generous as the wintermute team.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Akusa on February 26, 2009, 12:21:03 AM
If its already possible to get some answers of my questions but i would be really happy if you could answer these questions:

- Will the WME2 script language be an already developed script language (lua, python etc.) or will you write your own script language?
- If you design a new script language, can you already say the fundamental differences with the actual WME language and some primary design choices why you change the system?
- Will you still support full 2D games or only 3D/2.5D?
- Will WME2 feature the same tools or will there be a complete rewrite?

I ask this questions because im working on a long time adventure project with later addons for new content and stories. So if i have to (or better should want to) switch over to WME2, it would be nice to know how much work the coding could take to translate the game into WME2.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on February 26, 2009, 09:52:15 PM
- Will the WME2 script language be an already developed script language (lua, python etc.) or will you write your own script language?
Custom.

- If you design a new script language, can you already say the fundamental differences with the actual WME language and some primary design choices why you change the system?
It will be very similar to the current scripting, because I believe the current system works mostly well. There will be some differences, such as the event handlers replaced by methods.

- Will you still support full 2D games or only 3D/2.5D?
That's the plan. Basically if you support 2.5D, you're supporting 2D already, more or less.

- Will WME2 feature the same tools or will there be a complete rewrite?
Rewrite.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Exsecratus on March 28, 2009, 10:13:57 PM
Hi, just a suggestion
Characters animation could be imported in Source SMD (*.SMD) from half life format
I saw this on Dage, (a 3d adventure engine) and its really easy

one other thing is that shaders can be hard for newbies like me who don't know anything about hlsl and stuff

o/
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Spellbreaker on March 28, 2009, 10:52:38 PM
WME doesn't support shaders anyway.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Dr.Brain on March 31, 2009, 07:56:52 AM
Good Morning Every one!!!
I'm new.

 You are must do WME versions to other OS.
I'm know it is hard to do, but yesterday I found a website http://www.jazillian.com/indexCPP.html , whose translate from C++ to Java!!!  Shocked  It very is you click on link "Source Code Line Counter", you choose form the list programing language and send zip whit all files of source code. Full work doing this server.

 Java language is portable for every OS.
Next you only must use the Mono Project's tools( http://www.mono-project.com/ ).For Part whose use the .Net framework. Wink

For programing in you can Java use tool NetBeans http://www.netbeans.org/.
For implement a OpenGL in place of X 3D models can use plugin "OpenGL Pack" (https://netbeans-opengl-pack.dev.java.net/)for NetBeans. For sounds use a OpenAL.

Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on March 31, 2009, 09:44:58 AM
Dr.Brain: Please don't cross-post. There's really no need to post the same post into three different threads.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Dr.Brain on March 31, 2009, 03:07:33 PM
Sorry, but I'm never ever in past use a forum.
And I'm don't know anybody replay to my post.
I want to someone from WME Team replay.
Because I'm think is important to crate WME versions to other OS.
 
What you think about my proposal of convert WME form c++, Net. framework, Direct X to Java, Mono and OpenGL ? ???
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: MMR on April 09, 2009, 04:22:07 PM
Hi Mnemonic,

I've been a little "out of the box" for a while due to job related issues but I'm glad to hear about this new version and its goals. Now I'm fully available and helping spanish guys at the Spanish forum section  ;)

Please keep us updated in order to align with you to have a fully localizable version of WME2 several days before it will be launched (if you are agree ::) )

Regards,
Manuel Martos (MMR)
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: mattybennett on May 28, 2009, 05:30:53 PM
I admit ANN sounds like a great idea and something to be very pleased to see. However please tell me - are you changing the back-end? Still using C++ or thinking of prting over to Java particuarly as a number of these requests above concern the use of games on a handheld device. Perhaps the way forward?

Also am discussing the use of WME as a FPS engine (can't see it myself, but prepared to be convinced if given the code). Same with ANN?

Best regards,

Matthew
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on May 28, 2009, 06:02:34 PM
Still using C++, because it's still the most viable alternative for game development, IMO. Handheld devices are evolving rapidly, just look at iPhone or WinMobile devices.
FPS is not a design goal of WME2.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Chris on July 12, 2009, 08:49:22 AM
You can tell how the've done?

What percentage?

I am waiting too

And I am thrilled
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on July 15, 2009, 09:21:11 AM
I won't give you a percentage, because I don't know, but it would be probably lower than all of us would like :) However, I have some important underlaying systems running (mainly the scripting engine and the basic architecture) and I just started dwelling into the visual stuff.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on April 22, 2010, 10:55:59 PM
I'm exploring XAudio2 (the successor of DirectSound) at the moment. When I'm proficient with this, I could contribute some sound system code, if needed.

@Mnenomic: I like C# more than C++, but if you keep portability in mind, C++ should do the job ... maybe you should split wme into a core engine and several standalone modules/"plugins". If you push the DirectSound stuff into an extra module, it could be swapped with an specialized XAudio2 module for Windows 7 / XBox, with a CoreAudio module for MacOs / iPhone or suitable audio modules for linux. Do the same for the video engine and cross platform wme is coming closer ;-)


About Java:
Thinking about Edna, Java seems quite suitable for adventure game engines, BUT the Edna engine ist not even close to WMEs performance.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on April 23, 2010, 12:26:50 PM
The plan is to use OpenAL for audio, for portability reasons.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on April 23, 2010, 02:39:20 PM
Hmm, ok.

Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: gypsysnail on April 28, 2010, 07:43:54 PM
A question off the subject or similar to the subject - will WME work on Windows 7? Thats my main concern and will the games that were made in WME work on Win 7 too?
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: sychron on April 28, 2010, 10:48:14 PM
WME runs fine on Seven. Older games can cause problems, when trying to save data to their program folder. This problem has been adressed some time ago, for it first appeared on Vista. Anything compiled with a recent WME Dev Kit should run on Windows 7.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: StarLite on May 04, 2010, 04:20:30 PM
Good day all,

I have a bit of a concern about new versions and upgrades. I've noticed with the last engine I was using (will remain anonymous), every time the engine was upgraded it caused problems for my unfinished game each time I upgraded. I had problems with objects disappearing, objects moving all over the place, characters walking where ever they felt like, characters walking when they weren't given instruction to etc. Sorry but after the last nightmare I've just been through I'm a bit weary of upgrades. I guess what I want to know is, if you are in the middle of making a game, is it better to wait till you are finished creating your game before upgrading to the next version of an engine. thank you
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: odnorf on May 04, 2010, 04:43:09 PM
1.x versions never broke compatibility. WME 2 (not to be released soon afaik) is a new engine so it won't be compatible.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: StarLite on May 04, 2010, 05:45:26 PM
Thank you for your prompt reply odnorf, another question, if I'm working with 1.9 version say and when version 2 is released, will i still be able to use 1.9 to finish the project I will be working on. Sorry for the confusion, but I like to err on the side of caution after what I've been through. Thank you again
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: odnorf on May 04, 2010, 06:01:00 PM
Of course you'll be able to use 1.9 for as long as you want.  ;D It's not going anywhere. ;D For WME2 plans/goals check first post and the rest of the discussion.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: StarLite on May 04, 2010, 06:24:50 PM
Great thank you odnorf, then I'll keep going with the tutorial. I need an engine that I can rely on and this looks like it. I appreciate the reply and the reassurance. Take care
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on May 09, 2010, 03:42:18 PM
Hey folks, I just posted a raw little demo of wme2 on my wme2 development blog (http://wme2.dead-code.org/). Don't expect too much, there's still a long, long way to go, but I'm sick of writing code without any outside input and wanted to show *something* :) Have fun breaking the demo scene ::beer
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Slapdash on May 09, 2010, 06:25:58 PM
 O0 ::rock ::beer ::beer ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::thumbup ::wave :o :o :o :o :o
YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WM2 TEST.  SO far I LOVE it Mnemonic!!!
If I find any bugs or anything I'll let you know but man oh man, this works so well.
Personally I think you should make WME2 Dev more.. "Official" now.  It will help you get more feedback and maybe give you some inspiration.

Anyway we can edit play with the NAV mesh area?

Why not make an WME2 ideas area, then you can list them as you do for the todo list / bug fixes
 of the current WME? THat way you won't be deving in a vacuum. :D
Just playing with this demo game me so much ideas of what this engine could be!
Thanks!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on May 09, 2010, 09:40:33 PM
Hehe, thanks for your enthusiasm, Slapdash.


Quote
Personally I think you should make WME2 Dev more.. "Official" now.
Yeah, well, I kind of just did, I guess :) Finally linked the semi-hidden wme2 blog.

Quote
Anyway we can edit play with the NAV mesh area?
I was considering a nav-mesh editor (something like the GECK editor for Fallout 3 has), but eventually I decided an import of ordinary mesh would be enough. Also I'd like to try integrating recast (http://code.google.com/p/recastnavigation/) in the future, for automatic nav-mesh generation. I'm curious about the results.

Quote
Why not make an WME2 ideas area, then you can list them as you do for the todo list / bug fixes
 of the current WME? THat way you won't be deving in a vacuum.
I will definitely start a wme2 forum subsection sooner or later. I'm just not sure if I have enough info to share.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Slapdash on May 10, 2010, 10:56:30 AM
Hehe, thanks for your enthusiasm, Slapdash.
I'm very happy about this release. I have this game idea and I wanted to wait for WME2 to start with it. And i'm happy to see even though it's very little that it works. :)


Quote
Yeah, well, I kind of just did, I guess :) Finally linked the semi-hidden wme2 blog.

I will definitely start a wme2 forum subsection sooner or later. I'm just not sure if I have enough info to share.

Yeah I think that will be a great idea. Mnemonic I think all the WME users would like to be involved in this, I think you should be a little less modest and share your thoughts. ;)


Quote

I was considering a nav-mesh editor (something like the GECK editor for Fallout 3 has), but eventually I decided an import of ordinary mesh would be enough. Also I'd like to try integrating recast (http://code.google.com/p/recastnavigation/) in the future, for automatic nav-mesh generation. I'm curious about the results.


Recast looks very promising I remember reading some info on it a little while ago, that would definitely negate the whole nav-mesh editor. 
One could also play then with transparent blocks if you want to have specific areas no-go. I.e Force collision.
Here was a possible release of a path-finding engine - XNA based. Not sure if the guy is still going to release it though.
http://www.synapsegaming.com/forums/t/1003.aspx


I see some Ogre references (both in files and now in the nav-mesh post). Are you planning to use the Ogre format for 3D model Animation/ Objects?



Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Jyujinkai on May 10, 2010, 02:54:30 PM
The rendering engine is going to be oger... but as I understand it I would seriously not go around expecting this to come into beta anytime soon.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on May 10, 2010, 07:54:51 PM
I see some Ogre references (both in files and now in the nav-mesh post). Are you planning to use the Ogre format for 3D model Animation/ Objects?
Yes, WME2 is using the amazing Ogre3D as its underlaying rendering engine, so internally the ogre .mesh format will be used for meshes and animations. I would like to provide importer for some generally supported format (Collada or FBX).
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Slapdash on May 13, 2010, 08:47:14 AM
I see some Ogre references (both in files and now in the nav-mesh post). Are you planning to use the Ogre format for 3D model Animation/ Objects?
Yes, WME2 is using the amazing Ogre3D as its underlaying rendering engine, so internally the ogre .mesh format will be used for meshes and animations. I would like to provide importer for some generally supported format (Collada or FBX).

Great idea on the Collada / FBX in addition to .mesh. Reason being that not all graphics apps supports/will support .mesh exporters perfectly. Whereas most 3D apps at least have collada or fbx.
Thinking Later versions of XSI, Lighhtwave, Cinem4D, not to mention cheaper apps like Carrara and so forth.

But so far I'm liking what I'm hearing - Seeing.
I didn't get any crashes or anything in my tests.

Windows 7 64bit. Nvidia GFX card.

Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: FogGobbler on January 26, 2011, 06:03:16 PM
Hi!

Just a couple of WME2-questions.

So, I still am able to create 2.5 D with prerendered images with the new engine, right? Do I still have to cut out the foreground or does the new system work differently, perhaps with depthmaps or something like that?
Realtime, I mean "real" realtime shadows with per-pixel lighting possible with 3D characters on prerendered images? Like in i.e. Black mirror..

Thanks,
Oli
 
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on January 26, 2011, 06:26:52 PM
I'm focusing on the 3D part now. 2.5D may not be part of the initial release, but will be added later on. The plan is to use the same system as in WME 1.x. In my opinion depth maps are inflexible in terms of dynamic changes to the scene look/layout.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: goamanu on May 05, 2011, 11:04:04 PM
Hi! I have just one question about WME2:
Will it support 360 panoramic games?
I know I can simulate panoramic in WME1, but it is rather complicated and the results are not so good.
If WME2 will support panoramic games, then I prefer to wait for it :)
Thanks, you make a great work!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on May 06, 2011, 06:48:46 AM
I don't expect WME2 to have any specific support for panoramic games in the initial release. However, as far as I know the panoramic games are built simply by mapping textures to the inner sides of a cube/sphere and placing a camera inside. You should be able to do that in WME2.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on July 04, 2012, 07:29:18 AM
I forgot to mention WME2 now has its own dedicated website: http://wmehq.com/site/
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: nigec on June 16, 2013, 08:51:04 PM
So has this been abandoned? Or a big reveal on the cards? I noticed the link from your siggie has gone and the site's in limbo
I hope its the latter!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: Mnemonic on June 17, 2013, 05:42:08 PM
I'm not working on WME2 currently. It might be resurrected in a different form in the future, but at the moment it's not in development.
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: nigec on June 17, 2013, 10:09:21 PM
thanks for the quick reply
I hope you do get back onto it at some point :D
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: piere on June 20, 2013, 06:46:02 AM
Please lets see a WME2 !!!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: DarioP on March 09, 2016, 10:31:47 PM
HI to everyone,
I would like to know if WME2 is still in development or is a dead project.
thanks a lot !!
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: valter.home on March 10, 2016, 10:44:24 AM
I'm afraid that's all stopped.
This is a great pity because despite the engine is no longer updated for several years I consider it better and more powerful than Visionaire which is continually updated (and it costs Euro 49,00).
The 2.5d offered by Visio has features significantly lower than that of WME.
With WME currently you can still create excellent games, but later?
Mnemonic long ago had said that maybe WME would be resurrected in another form ... I'd be willing to buy it.
Have you some news Mnemonic?  ::rock
Title: Re: ANN: The future of WME
Post by: neo_one on January 27, 2017, 09:15:29 PM
No update for Wintermute since 2010 and we don't know nothing about Ann develop since 3-4 years, the new site for Wme2 is closed.
I think it's has been abandoned. It's a pity becouse is best engine that Ags.