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Messages - OldCoder

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General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?
« on: April 28, 2003, 03:15:22 PM »
@ odnorf:
try to ask to buy the engine of a commercial game and you will be amazed of how much it's going to cost you
I am in the business as producer of computer magazines and software since 1987 - you must be joking - lol ;) I had these people in my bureau ($300.000 per produced game) - most of them are now delivering the newspapers on a bike each morning or work for MCDonalds - rofl (behind the bar with that chic uniform)

@ Jerrot: You SHOULD invite Bill Gates - because without him I doubt that Mnemonic would develop on a computer rather than on paper and with plastic-actors ;)

As I said before - I am just adding arguments to bring that business on an acceptable way - and if Zorro wouldn't have started that thread I would have done or someone else. Money makes the world go round.  ;D

If Mnemonic writes on his website: it costs from $0.50 if you make $2 ... $100.000.000 if you make $1 Billion.  :P
Or he puts a figure like we make 50:50 if you make money with it.
Then at least it is something a person who is interested knows if its worth to spend time on it.
Figures you can count on - okay ? And are fair and the same for everyone. And then you decide for what ever ...

Feature requests, suggestions / Re:LAN Support
« on: April 28, 2003, 12:50:05 PM »
Multiplayer is an essential (in my view) to make this a very interesting engine.
Adding FTP DirectPlay TCP UDP would bring thousands of new features into the adventure worlds. You are not restricted on 2 or 3 predesigned actions for each actor you meet - each actor acts unpredictable - to mention only one aspect - because there are real persons behind most avatars.
You can put your main view on the design of the Adventure Worlds and Items. The Game is brought forward by the Actors themselves after you present an environment where the actions happen.
I admit, that's not the classic adventure game - but it makes RPG programming much easier.

General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?
« on: April 28, 2003, 11:55:14 AM »
What's the problem here? That if you decide to make a game and earn some money then mnemonic doesn't deserve anything?
Read it all - no-one talked about nothing !

Make the language like Basic? For what? Make the engine less powerfull?
Come off it - Maybe I didn't get the secrets inside yet - but checking the 2 examples I didn't see anything that cannot be  done better with one of the mentioned Tools.

For you as amateur developer that may go commercial I admit, I wouldn't have a solution (remember - I was only dropping some thoughts into the discussion, as I wrote! It's Mnemonics business how its handled in the end) - but Microsoft or the producers of the hardware of your computer don't care either if you use your computer for fun or business - you at least have to pay for some sort of system (a fixed price that you know before you work or play with it - not one depending on what you do)

I did mention what I want to produce - 3D-Online-Chats - and I don't care if it's done with an adventure-engine or an engine based on BASIC or Javascript or a 3D-Shooter-engine or whatever, as long as it is working reliable in the end and the program is easy to devolop with - and especially if the price to buy the engine is right in my view (means: not too expensive to make a test - not too big of a loss if I put it forever into the bookshell after 10 days).

PS. I still don't understand if you are looking for an adventure engine (you said nothing about it in you post) or just found this program and complain about it's licence when nobody asked you any money
I think that's anserwed above now - besides the licence thing.
If you buy a Hammer (a tool in the far sense as a 3D-Engine) you know what it costs you to use it. No-one comes and says: you hammered more than 1000 nails - I want more money then.
And the descendants and grandchildren of the inventor of the hammer do not still want a licence fee for that outstanding invention which it was at its time - as may be a 3D-engine nowadays - especially not depending on what and how many times it's used for.
That's what makes a licence based on selling figures ridiculous ;)
And that's what makes people that do not know a fixed price for their product and are anxious to talk about it freely, suspect  :-\

General Discussion / Re:So, how much it's gonna cost?
« on: April 28, 2003, 12:27:27 AM »
Hello Mnemonic

If you honestly think about making that engine a success for you, you will have to make a price. I have seen this site first time today. And the first thing I hated was the line: ... commercial ... it will cost $$$.
That's bad style. And without that forum and that topic here I would have been gone forever already.

Let me write some thoughts down that I can add here.

Years ago I saw 3D Gamestudio Adverts. Looking closer into it I found out that they have a license system. I wrote an email to them which contained lots of the arguments that Zorro wrote above. Several others must have done that or they may not have been able to sell their commercial and professional engine - what ever it was - they quickly have changed their policy and are now proudly announcing on their website - NO License !!! Making it one of the main arguments to buy their development system. Actually they now leave the impression that it would be the most terrible thing in the world to beg for license fees ;)

Does anyone here know Blaxxun? Blaxxun Contact is a plugin for the Internet Explorer that is used by 3D-Chat-Communities like Cybertown. I asked them for their price (2 years ago) because I planned a Community like that. I got the answer (in other words): That depends how successful you are!!! $50000 if you have up to 500 People online at a time - if more then the price is higher too.
That means: I have the work and the ideas and they get the money. And if I work harder and have better ideas they get even more.
Okay - one should not talk bad about the dead - meanwhile they are broke - and you can imagine why ...

There are several tools for Gamedevelopers on the Market and there are new ones just recently coming and going. 3D Gamestudio, Blitz3D, Dark Basic Pro, DIV, Jamagic, GBasic, etc. are the astablished ones I know. Gamestudio costs between $200 and $1000, depending what sort of game you want to develop. The others are between $80 and $180 as far as I know.

I bought them all and still have not found THE Engine to develop my Community. Each lacks things the others have - and no-one is able to fulfil all needs. A combination of the best features of all would be perfect. Anyway; I have my program nearly finished learning a lot making several parts of it for every system.

Coming back to price-policies:
With all upgrades 3D-Studio cost me about $1500 by now. And there is the new upgrade out (maybe THE thing I am really looking for) but it would cost me another $500 - making it $2000 for me, summed up. Someone who buys it new today gets it for $1000. You see - there is no justice. I have supported the developer for years - helping him to be still alive - and the thanks I get is: I would have payed twice the price for the same product that a newbie pays for it.
This shows that there is no model that suits for everyone.

But one thing is for sure:
If you start with a license system you will not make a penny.
What you (in my view) can do is: Make your product better than the mentioned above, make its language simple (like) BASIC and fix a price between $100 and $150.
Make that public on the net and be sure that nearly EVERYONE - and every wannabe gamedeveloper - that has bought Blitz or Dark or Jamagic or Gamestudio or whatever will buy your Engine, too.
Add a development environment - sort of a WorldBuilderTool thats easy to use, fits to your system and maybe converts from others like Quake3, VRML, Unreal, Half Life or others - and you can make the price $49 higher.
Add an easy to use Model-Editor, that supports Bone-Animation, converts from B3D, X, 3DS, VRML97 etc. and that fits into your system and you make another $30 to $50 from each sold download.

I will watch the development - and will buy for sure if its something like that. And if not I will use the ones I already have or look for something else. ;)

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