Wintermute Engine Forum

General Category => Software and games => Topic started by: odnorf on November 02, 2003, 12:22:00 PM

Title: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on November 02, 2003, 12:22:00 PM
Blender http://www.blender.org/ (http://www.blender.org/) is a 3D modeling, animation & rendering program. What makes a difference in this program is it's price. It's free & opensource.  ;D

For old Blender users: There is now available a preview of version 2.30 which corrects Blender's main problem, it's UI.  You've got to try it out. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: MMR on November 02, 2003, 01:49:35 PM
But what kind of games can you develop?
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on November 02, 2003, 02:35:18 PM
You can't create a game with it because it's not an engine. But you can create the graphics for it. :-) It's in the same category as 3D Studio for example. It's a very good choice for people that can't afford 3D Studio, Lightwave etc

Oh... and there is a Czech adventure with impressive prerendered 3D graphics (like The Longest Journey & Syberia) that is using Blender but I can't find the link right now... Mnemonic?
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on November 02, 2003, 03:06:07 PM
Oh... and there is a Czech adventure with impressive prerendered 3D graphics (like The Longest Journey & Syberia) that is using Blender but I can't find the link right now... Mnemonic?

The game's called "Ron Loo", www.peregrius.cz
And the author of Ron Loo graphics was one of the Blender Art Festival 2003 Award Nominees.

EDIT: Direct english link: http://peregrius.cz/index.php?Gstr=index&Gjaz=en
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 08, 2003, 07:50:50 PM
The 2.3x version of Blender is a big step in the right direction, but if you ask me theres still a lot to do regarding the GUI ... I started using Blender at version 2.28, but dealing the UI is still a story of blood, sweat and tears :-)

Especially using python-scripts like LSystem, Fiber etc isn't fun ... I have three different versions of Blender and also three versions of Python running to be able to use all the plugins I need.

But overall I like Blender very much, especially because it's for free :-) (and it has a large and very helpful community)

There is another czech adventure, where the graphics were done in Blender, it's called The Black Mirror ( http://www.futuregames.cz/poselsmrti/ )

They have a short demo on their page, it looks very good (short playtime, but it's 160 MB in size).
Sad that it isn't released on the german market yet.


Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on December 08, 2003, 08:51:01 PM
Actually The Black Mirror graphics was done in 3DS Max. I recommend the game, though :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 08, 2003, 09:14:27 PM
Uuups ... I was pretty sure that I read somewhere they did it with Blender ... I'm getting old, I think :-)

Anyway, MY game will be done with Blender (and Wintermute of course  ;D ), and I recommend it to all of you.
It will be released in about 100 years or so  ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on December 09, 2003, 09:01:01 AM
Uuups ... I was pretty sure that I read somewhere they did it with Blender ... I'm getting old, I think :-)

Ron Loo was supposed the first big game made in Blender, unless, of course, you'll finish your game sooner than them :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 09, 2003, 09:19:09 AM
Well, I'm afraid they will be slightly faster than me :-)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 09, 2003, 09:55:29 AM
There are no Blender-Pics online, I lost most of my older work in a harddisc-crash, and then I stopped working with Blender and went back to Bryce & Co.

Never worked with Bryce and never saw it in real... meanwhile I have some (very) basic knowledge about 3ds max, but I don't know how long I'll be allowed to use that license and it's too expensive to buy it just for a little adventure. So I still like the idea of that free software, but can't imagine that Blender should be able to produce images in the same quality. (Well, and I can't imagine to model them in the same easy way... yet.)


If you want to start with Blender I could write some Beginner-Tutorials if you like.

I didn't search too closely yet, so maybe there already are some good tutorials online somewhere, but maybe I can ask you from time to time, that would be great already. Although - as long as I can use 3ds, it's hard to turn it off. :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 09, 2003, 10:10:43 AM
Ok, if I had the chance to work with 3ds I think I would do it, too :-)

The quality of Blender-Images depends mostly on the capabilitys of the artist :-)
It is a very powerful software, i think not as powerful as 3ds MAX (never worked with it), but you can do almost everything you want with it - if you know how :-)
And you need a good hand for lightning and texturing, thats what all stands and falls with, if you ask me.

There are a lot of tutorials on Blender out there, but if you have question you can ask ... and maybe I can even answer them :-)

Here are some links:
http://www.elysiun.com (large Blender-site with lots of tutorials and a huge community - look at some of the pictures in the Finished Project-Forum to become an idea of the capabilitys of Blender)
www.blendpolis.org (German Blender-Community)

Off-topic: I have a lot of 3ds-Models, but Blender can't import this format (there is one script out there, but I never get it to work properly) - does anyone of you now a good Program to convert 3ds into dxf-files? I tried Crossroads, but it messes up the meshes.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 09, 2003, 11:15:42 AM
The quality of Blender-Images depends mostly on the capabilitys of the artist :-)

Maybe a good argument for me against Blender. ;)

It is a very powerful software, i think not as powerful as 3ds MAX (never worked with it), but you can do almost everything you want with it - if you know how :-)

Not to forget - you can buy either 3ds max - or you take blender and buy a car.  :P

http://www.elysiun.com (large Blender-site with lots of tutorials and a huge community - look at some of the pictures in the Finished Project-Forum to become an idea of the capabilitys of Blender)
www.blendpolis.org (German Blender-Community)

Oh, I didn't discover that forum section yet - there the real pics are, I see. That "mindfields" movie is quite impressing for some free software. Thanks for the links.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 09, 2003, 11:22:22 AM

Maybe a good argument for me against Blender. ;)

So, the rumors are true and 3ds MAX has that Make-the-Image-look-Good-Button?
 ;D

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Not to forget - you can buy either 3ds max - or you take blender and buy a car.  :P

Hehe, yes thats true ... I saw older pricelists for plugins for Hair, Watercreation and such things ... for this money you could buy even a Maybach  :)

Quote
Oh, I didn't discover that forum section yet - there the real pics are, I see. That "mindfields" movie is quite impressing for some free software. Thanks for the links.

I stopped looking into this section because it depressed me too much when I compared their pictures with mine  ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 09, 2003, 12:35:36 PM
You can't create a game with it because it's not an engine. But you can create the graphics for it. :-) It's in the same category as 3D Studio for example. It's a very good choice for people that can't afford 3D Studio, Lightwave etc

btw - you can create games with Blender, because it has a built-in-3d-engine, it's disabled in the actual versions, but up to 2.25 it's accessible, and as far as I know it shall return somewhere between 2.3x and 2.5

But I think it can't compete with actual 3d-Engines, even with low-cost-ones like 3d Gamestudio.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 09, 2003, 09:12:09 PM
You can't create a game with it because it's not an engine. But you can create the graphics for it. :-) It's in the same category as 3D Studio for example. It's a very good choice for people that can't afford 3D Studio, Lightwave etc

btw - you can create games with Blender, because it has a built-in-3d-engine, it's disabled in the actual versions, but up to 2.25 it's accessible, and as far as I know it shall return somewhere between 2.3x and 2.5

But I think it can't compete with actual 3d-Engines, even with low-cost-ones like 3d Gamestudio.

Actually game engine should be back (heh, why it sounds like another Terminator movie trailer?) probably at summer 2004 and maybe even sooner we should be provided with animation tools operating with some game blender animation. So we will have collision detection for example :)

Besides GameBlender, or rather complet of it and some new features included in BlenderPublisher was originally developed as tool for profesional use like 3D interactive presentations, architectual walkthroughts and so. It is quite powerful in my opinion but is not meant for another Quake game ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on December 09, 2003, 09:50:32 PM
Moderator note: Tol is the person responsible graphics for the Ron Loo game mentioned above. He's a skilled Blender user so I invited him here as "guest star" :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 09, 2003, 10:43:37 PM
Wow, we have a REAL star around us  :)

I looked at the screenshots on your site, and I think now it's time for me to go crying again  :)

Do you use the Blender-Renderer or do you export to Povray or so?

I saw some projects begun with the old Gameengine of Blender, but in my opinion Adventures are still better in 2d instead  of realtime-3d.

3d is cool for Action and Racing Games, but in Adventures I miss too much atmosphere.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 09, 2003, 11:04:40 PM
Wow, we have a REAL star around us  :)

I looked at the screenshots on your site, and I think now it's time for me to go crying again  :)

Do you use the Blender-Renderer or do you export to Povray or so?

I saw some projects begun with the old Gameengine of Blender, but in my opinion Adventures are still better in 2d instead  of realtime-3d.

3d is cool for Action and Racing Games, but in Adventures I miss too much atmosphere.

Thank you:)

No, I use no external renderers, it is all pure Blender. For graphic and animation I use Blender, Photoshop for textures creating and Poser for raw humans, which are clothed in Blender:)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 10, 2003, 08:24:44 AM
I have a older version of poser (3.0?) wich was on the CD of a computer magazine ... I like the models very much, especially those you can buy from DAZ3d, but I hate the GUI of Poser ... it's even more worse than the GUI of Blender :-)

Perhaps I should give it a second try.

Last week I discovered the Makehuman-Script for Blender, it's pretty cool how easy you can create and alter good looking human models with it (and even demons  :) ), but I'm afraid now I have to learn how to use armatures to do the character animations ... I think I know what I will spent my christmas holidays with :)

Did you model the clothes by hand? I found the MakeClothes-script on a Blender-Site, but I didn't really understan how it worked, and so my results where everything else than beautiful :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 10, 2003, 09:46:42 AM
Welcome Tol, glad to read you here and congrats to the probably best graphics I ever saw done with Blender.

Well, I'd like to ask you some questions, but I'm an absolute beginner and I still have to fight a lot with the GUI in general, so I don't know what to ask yet - I just hope you keep on hopping into this forum from time to time. :)

Yesterday I discovered g-max (well, Mnemonic told me...) and since I worked a little with 3ds max before, I love its GUI for modelling. I thought about importing those models into Blender later for finetuning and rendering, but couldn't get the import script working (well, seems to be a general Python problem on my computer though, even "import string" was too much for it...).

Did anybody else try this way ?
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 10, 2003, 09:58:02 AM
What format are G-Max files?

For Python-Scripts in Blender it's genral necessary to set the Python-Path correct, but this is unfortunately still no guarantee that scripts work, because a lot of older scripts are incompatible to newer versions of Blender and Python.

If G-Max can save Models in DXF-Format this is the best way, because Blender can open them directly.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 10, 2003, 10:04:28 AM
I guess it's because I installes Python again AFTER Blender, so some files are missing, I'll try this later today.

g-max writes... well, gmax-files. ;-) But there are plug-ins, so I'm sure I can export them as DXF somehow, thanks.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 10, 2003, 10:56:33 AM
Quote
I guess it's because I installes Python again AFTER Blender, so some files are missing, I'll try this later today.

No, that should be no Problem at all - the most common problem is the wrong python path set in Blender (just go to the file settings and check if the path is correct, it should be something like c:\python\lib or so)

G-Max is the freeware-tool from Discreet, for designing game-characters and so, or? I think I downloaded it a while ago, but never installed it.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 10, 2003, 11:36:45 AM
Nihil:
1.yes, Poser has bad UI. No, Blender donīt have bad UI, only unusual. Difference is that despite you know Poser UI very good, it is still ineffective while when you get into Blender UI, it became so part of you, that youīll never want anything else. I am much quickier in modeling with Blender, then all experienced Max users I know personally, althought they are much better artist then I am.

2.Clothes-yes, I model it by hand, donīt know another way. Never heard of MakeClothes script to be honest :)

Jerrot- well  I have tried all big apps like 3D MAX, Lightwave, Maya, Cinema and few more less known and I have worked with Max about year before I have discovered Blender. And I have choose Blender and use it despite our publisher is willing to buy me MAX licence. I really think, that Blender has his weakness but in matter of workflow and effectivity I think it is best choice for its great UI. Yep, it is unusual, yet very powerfull, it only takes some time to learn it (much less than MAX UI though).

So I donīt understand why to import models from another aplications when Blenderīs most strong point is modeling, but on the other hand why not :)

Most of the scripts are exporters to export into aplication with better output. Of course some modellers prefer to model in Wings3D w(www.wings3d.com ) which seems to have quite good polygonal tools. I do not use it, but it is rather good tool and it is freeware too.

So import posiblities are DXF which can Blender open native, but better option could be Import/Export suite which can import and export formats like OBJ (which can contain even UV coordinates), Wings format, Lightwave format, Truespace format and few others.

You will find link for most of the Python srcipts here:http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8095 (http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8095)

If you have troubles with python scripts, tha first try to follow this tutorials:
http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7723 (http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7723)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 10, 2003, 12:48:05 PM
Nihil:
1.yes, Poser has bad UI. No, Blender donīt have bad UI, only unusual. Difference is that despite you know Poser UI very good, it is still ineffective while when you get into Blender UI, it became so part of you, that youīll never want anything else. I am much quickier in modeling with Blender, then all experienced Max users I know personally, althought they are much better artist then I am.

Yes, but I think they could get it somewhat more user-friendly, especially for beginners. When I first opened Blender I was so overwhelmed by thousands of buttons (well, at least it looked like thousands  :) ) that my first thought was: Ok, close it and open Bryce again  ;D

But you are right, after a time (and enough patience) you learn it and won't miss it ... the only thing that is REALLY annoying is that I often try to use the Right-Mouse-Button in several other Applications and wonder why nothing happens  ;D

Quote
2.Clothes-yes, I model it by hand, donīt know another way. Never heard of MakeClothes script to be honest :)

I don't have the link here, I can post it this evening if you are interested. But as far as I can say unto now, you don't miss too much if you don't have it  ;)ī

But other scipts like makehuman, fiber or Lsystem are a really big help for people who are no heroes of modelling (aka Me  ;D)

Quote
So I donīt understand why to import models from another aplications when Blenderīs most strong point is modeling, but on the other hand why not :)

Well, I have a hundred of finished models on my harddisc ... Blender is strong in modeling, but I'm strong in being lazy  ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 10, 2003, 01:47:20 PM
Jerrot- well  I have tried all big apps like 3D MAX, Lightwave, Maya, Cinema and few more less known and I have worked with Max about year before I have discovered Blender.

 :o That's interesting. Most users never tried them too much and decided for Blender because of its "price" (at least I thought so). Maybe I still have a wrong picture of it.

Yep, it is unusual, yet very powerfull, it only takes some time to learn it (much less than MAX UI though).

Ahem - I'm not sure I agree here, but maybe it's a matter of personal taste. ;)

So I donīt understand why to import models from another aplications when Blenderīs most strong point is modeling, but on the other hand why not :)

Ok, thank you so far ! I see that I'll just have to get much closer into Blender before I can argue around here. :)

Nihil: the problem was the latest beta version of Python 2.3 - switching back to 2.2 solved everything.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 11, 2003, 12:05:34 AM

Yes, but I think they could get it somewhat more user-friendly, especially for beginners. When I first opened Blender I was so overwhelmed by thousands of buttons (well, at least it looked like thousands  :) ) that my first thought was: Ok, close it and open Bryce again  ;D
I can understand beginers that they are rather confused when they run Blender first time. But honestly-how manny begginers can open MAX or Maya and start modeling, animating and do all stuff? There are even more buttons than in Blender, in much cases there are even not buttons but only confusing icons.

Yes, Bryce has very intuitive UI, friendly for begginers BUT how far can you go with this kind soft? Unlike most of 3D "proffesionals" I have nothing against Bryce or Poser, I like them, but their use is very limited and one of the main reason is that effectivity is sacrificed on the altar of kinddnes to 3D hobbyists and begginers.

It is just like this-Poser, Bryce and similar low cost apps with shiny, graphic explicit  interface are rather for hobby use (althought they can have proffesional use when you use them as one of more tools), MAX, Maya and others, including Blender are for users willing to spend more or less time of learning and developing their workflow. There is no short-cut for this-there are just too much tools compared to profiled soft like Bryce (which is natively only for landscape generating).

In short- Blender may be freeware, but it is not toy, just like "big" 3D software:)

But you are right, after a time (and enough patience) you learn it and won't miss it ... the only thing that is REALLY annoying is that I often try to use the Right-Mouse-Button in several other Applications and wonder why nothing happens  ;D

Yep, someone already did mentioned this in Blender developers forum and it is possibility that there will be option to switch to use RMB and LMB according to standards in other apps:)

Quote
Well, I have a hundred of finished models on my harddisc ... Blender is strong in modeling, but I'm strong in being lazy  ;)
Eh, yes you are right, sorry, this did not came to my mind :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 11, 2003, 12:21:21 AM
:o That's interesting. Most users never tried them too much and decided for Blender because of its "price" (at least I thought so). Maybe I still have a wrong picture of it.
With freeware applications is problem  that pros wonīt use it because they just donīt believe it and of course why they should learn it. And they are right in some point-honestly I canīt  suggest begginer to learn Blender withought warning-if you decide to use Blender and want to become profesional 3D artist, you will face a lot of problems. Firstly and most important-no one will employ you, because you are incompatible with rest of the team.

Secondly- not so important, but sometimes little annoing- most of other 3D artist wonīt take you seriously. You wonīt be "one of them" Fortunatelly there are open minds amongs them, but donīt count on that there are more then few of them. It can be serious when you are freelancer, because fair competition on market is nothing but illusion and your competitor will time from time use your "unprofessionality" againts you in order to take you away of your prospective client.

So I would rather suggest  begginer 3D artist to learn 3D MAX -it is much easier way and still most perspective:)

Quote

Ahem - I'm not sure I agree here, but maybe it's a matter of personal taste. ;)
Yep, it is always matter of personal taste of course:)



Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 11, 2003, 12:31:21 AM
Yes, Bryce has very intuitive UI, friendly for begginers BUT how far can you go with this kind soft? Unlike most of 3D "proffesionals" I have nothing against Bryce or Poser, I like them, but their use is very limited and one of the main reason is that effectivity is sacrificed on the altar of kinddnes to 3D hobbyists and begginers.

Yes, thats the reason why I left Bryce and switched to Blender.

I'm still a beginner, but I reached the point where Bryce was too limiting due to lack of basic features needed in 3d-Software.

You can do absolutely cool, good looking landscapes, with mountains, water, nice looking sky and so on in a few minutes ... but sadly, that is all you can do with it.

If they had added more tools for mesh editing and a better renderer, it would be a very cool aplication - but so it is mainly a fun tool (well, and good for creating background images, what I still use it for).

But Poser is another case for me  ... I gave it a second try today, but the Interface made me so angry again that I closed only half an hour later ... forever this time I think :)

Quote
Yep, someone already did mentioned this in Blender developers forum and it is possibility that there will be option to switch to use RMB and LMB according to standards in other apps:)

Too late for me, my RMB wants to select, not open context menus :)



Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 11, 2003, 12:43:33 AM
Quote
I'm still a beginner, but I reached the point where Bryce was too limiting due to lack of basic features needed in 3d-Software.

You can do absolutely cool, good looking landscapes, with mountains, water, nice looking sky and so on in a few minutes ... but sadly, that is all you can do with it.

I canīt say, that I use Bryce more then to have given it try so I would like to ask you- in what is Bryce better then Terragen for landscape making? When I compared pictures made by Bryce and made by Terragen at Renderosity.com galleries, pictures made by Terragen were several ranks better then Bryce renders..

I wantīto play with Bryce more this x-mas as it is pretty low-priced (cost same as Terragen licence) and ver 5 is said to have neat tree generator which would help me a lot these days:)

Quote
If they had added more tools for mesh editing and a better renderer, it would be a very cool aplication
And that is the point I was talking about-they canīt implement much more tools in primitive UI like Bryce has-there is simply no room for them and the very philosophy of its interface is rather unusable for clasical modeling tools:)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 11, 2003, 01:07:00 AM
I canīt say, that I use Bryce more then to have given it try so I would like to ask you- in what is Bryce better then Terragen for landscape making? When I compared pictures made by Bryce and made by Terragen at Renderosity.com galleries, pictures made by Terragen were several ranks better then Bryce renders..

I wantīto play with Bryce more this x-mas as it is pretty low-priced (cost same as Terragen licence) and ver 5 is said to have neat tree generator which would help me a lot these days:)

Good question, but I can't give you a detailed answer because I don't have much expirience with Terragen.

The good thing at bryce is, that you get good looking results (well, good looking for me :) ) in a short time ... just create some Mountains, use the heightmap-editor to let them look the way you want, add a descent sky from the preset which can also be easyly edited, add a cloud layer for dramatic scenes, water if you like ... everything is just one mouseclick away.

I don't now how this things work in Terragen (how you create and alter the Mountains and stuff).

The Tree Generator is cool, the results look very good and it's way easier than dealing with LSystem :)
Unfortunately the Tree-Models can not be exported :(

One reason why Terragen Images look better maybe the Renderer - I think, you can use PovRay or so with Terragen? And the Bryce-Renderer isn't very good, especially if you have objects near the camera, and the Sky-System also produces strange results sometimes.

You said that both cost the same - I always thought that Terragen is freeware?

Quote
And that is the point I was talking about-they canīt implement much more tools in primitive UI like Bryce has-there is simply no room for them and the very philosophy of its interface is rather unusable for clasical modeling tools:)
Quote


Yes, thats true, the only thing they could do is to "outsource" this tools into an editor like they did it with the trees, Materials and so on ... but I think, that won't work for detailed models.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 11, 2003, 09:00:33 AM
One thing I forgot: Have you tested Vue d'Esprit?

It goes in the same direction as Bryce but seems to be a lot better (from what I have heard, I didn't test it myself). You can dl a demo (with limited functionality) on their Homepage ( www.e-onsoftware.com ). And it's not very expensive (the normal version for 209$, the Pro costs 599$ ... but if your Publisher was willing to buy you 3ds Max that shouldn't be a problem :) )

In the Pro Version you can Export created Plants and stuff ... looks very promising (at least in their advertisments ;) )

Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 11, 2003, 06:02:24 PM
One thing I forgot: Have you tested Vue d'Esprit?

It goes in the same direction as Bryce but seems to be a lot better (from what I have heard, I didn't test it myself). You can dl a demo (with limited functionality) on their Homepage ( www.e-onsoftware.com ). And it's not very expensive (the normal version for 209$, the Pro costs 599$ ... but if your Publisher was willing to buy you 3ds Max that shouldn't be a problem :) )

In the Pro Version you can Export created Plants and stuff ... looks very promising (at least in their advertisments ;) )



I am just testing Vue and I am very pleased with its terrain editor and rendering quality :) It seems very promising, but unfortunately there is no demo for Pro version :( I have to test it for exporting too, so I will have to look for cracked version to test it , althought I hate warez :-\ and even donīt know where to find it...

But thanks for suggest, I have heard about it, but never come to mind to try it:)

Ad Terragen- yes, Terragen is freeware, as long as you donīt use it for commercial purposes. When you want to use it like me, you have to pay. Registered version allows you also better rendering, higher resolutions and some more functions:)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 11, 2003, 10:33:09 PM
I am just testing Vue and I am very pleased with its terrain editor and rendering quality :) It seems very promising, but unfortunately there is no demo for Pro version :( I have to test it for exporting too, so I will have to look for cracked version to test it , althought I hate warez :-\ and even donīt know where to find it...

Perhaps you could ask for a Demo-CD directly at E-On? Sometimes companies have some for their more expensive software ... at least asking is for free :)

Quote
Ad Terragen- yes, Terragen is freeware, as long as you donīt use it for commercial purposes. When you want to use it like me, you have to pay. Registered version allows you also better rendering, higher resolutions and some more functions:)

I saw that there is a script for importing Terragen-Landscapes into Blender, have you ever tested it?

And for Terragen: There exists a programm called Forrester with that you can import Terragen-Landscapes and fill them with nice looking trees. It costs 35$

Here is the URL: www.dartnall.co.uk
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 11, 2003, 10:54:43 PM
I am just testing Vue and I am very pleased with its terrain editor and rendering quality :) It seems very promising, but unfortunately there is no demo for Pro version :( I have to test it for exporting too, so I will have to look for cracked version to test it , althought I hate warez :-\ and even donīt know where to find it...

Perhaps you could ask for a Demo-CD directly at E-On? Sometimes companies have some for their more expensive software ... at least asking is for free :)

Quote
Ad Terragen- yes, Terragen is freeware, as long as you donīt use it for commercial purposes. When you want to use it like me, you have to pay. Registered version allows you also better rendering, higher resolutions and some more functions:)

I saw that there is a script for importing Terragen-Landscapes into Blender, have you ever tested it?

And for Terragen: There exists a programm called Forrester with that you can import Terragen-Landscapes and fill them with nice looking trees. It costs 35$

Here is the URL: www.dartnall.co.uk


I will ask, but I donīt have good experience with software companies so I donīt expect to gen reply. And furthemore-if there is really demo (and then I donīt get why they donīt have it at web), it is limited for sure in parts I have to test especially (export of trees with complete UV coordinates into Blender) and without this soft is useless for me.

Terragen- yes, there is script for Blender called Ter2Blend of Guy Van Rentergem and I use it time by time. I have even wrote tutorial how to use it, unfortunatelly like all my tutorials (except one)  it is only in Czech.
There is also import script from Forresster , or at least Guy talked about it, that he is going to write it about two years ago, I donīt know for sure, if he realized his intention:)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on December 12, 2003, 02:59:33 PM
Blender goes raytracing. Check www.blender.org (http://www.blender.org).
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on January 03, 2004, 04:03:30 PM
Hi,

well... I'm messing around with Blender for a while now, where I learned to love the modelling possibilities. Now... I always had some questions in my mind, which might be very ridiculous for you and maybe quite general, but I'll just ask away, bcause I'm stuck with the second question currently.

1. If you are creating a simple shed (4 walls, 1 door, 1 window), what is the best way of arranging the parts of it ? I tried it by making separate objects for the walls (cutting out the window and the door), the floor, etc. ! That worked fine so far, but is it the best way ?

2. Now I want to use textures on it and the problems begin. I want to use some texture for the inside and another one for the outside (together with a bump map). How can I do that ? I guess I have to use UV coordinates, but I don't get how to use them. Or will I have to create a new object for the outer wall ? No, can't be the way, can it ?

3. Boolean operations: It seems to me they just don't work as I would expect them to do. Let's say we have a cube and and a smaller sphere. Now I want to create an object by subtracting the sphere from the cube... how ??! :)

Thanks for any input...
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 03, 2004, 04:57:11 PM
Hi,

well... I'm messing around with Blender for a while now, where I learned to love the modelling possibilities. Now... I always had some questions in my mind, which might be very ridiculous for you and maybe quite general, but I'll just ask away, bcause I'm stuck with the second question currently.

1. If you are creating a simple shed (4 walls, 1 door, 1 window), what is the best way of arranging the parts of it ? I tried it by making separate objects for the walls (cutting out the window and the door), the floor, etc. ! That worked fine so far, but is it the best way ?

2. Now I want to use textures on it and the problems begin. I want to use some texture for the inside and another one for the outside (together with a bump map). How can I do that ? I guess I have to use UV coordinates, but I don't get how to use them. Or will I have to create a new object for the outer wall ? No, can't be the way, can it ?

3. Boolean operations: It seems to me they just don't work as I would expect them to do. Let's say we have a cube and and a smaller sphere. Now I want to create an object by subtracting the sphere from the cube... how ??! :)

Thanks for any input...

Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 03, 2004, 05:12:07 PM
ad 1: I don't know if it's the best way, but when I so things like this, I just use a cube, subdivide several times and cut out the windows and doors.

ad 3: I don't use boolean very often (aka never :-) ), so it's better too copy a solution from a tutorial:

Blender boolean operations are done using the "Intersect" button.

1) Position two or more objects so that they overlap or intersect in space.

2) Select those objects with "shift+right mouse click" and (CTRL-J) join them.

3) In editmode (TAB), select all (A) then hit the "Intersect" button.

This will perform a boolean operation that creates all standard forms of booleans at one time. You must then select which parts you want to keep. This is done in editmode. You simply put your mouse over the area you want to select and press the "L" key on your keyboard. This will select all of the connected points on an object. You can then move, rearrange or delete any portion of the new objects created by the boolean intersect.

As far as I know they will remain as joined meshes so that they can only be manipulated independently in editmode with the "L" key. Use "P" seperate the selected verticies.

ad 2: Not sure about this point ... I think there was a way, but I have to try out later.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 03, 2004, 06:22:39 PM
ad 1: I don't know if it's the best way, but when I so things like this, I just use a cube, subdivide several times and cut out the windows and doors.

ad 3: I don't use boolean very often (aka never :-) ), so it's better too copy a solution from a tutorial:

Blender boolean operations are done using the "Intersect" button.

1) Position two or more objects so that they overlap or intersect in space.

2) Select those objects with "shift+right mouse click" and (CTRL-J) join them.

3) In editmode (TAB), select all (A) then hit the "Intersect" button.

This will perform a boolean operation that creates all standard forms of booleans at one time. You must then select which parts you want to keep. This is done in editmode. You simply put your mouse over the area you want to select and press the "L" key on your keyboard. This will select all of the connected points on an object. You can then move, rearrange or delete any portion of the new objects created by the boolean intersect.

As far as I know they will remain as joined meshes so that they can only be manipulated independently in editmode with the "L" key. Use "P" seperate the selected verticies.

ad 2: Not sure about this point ... I think there was a way, but I have to try out later.


Believe me that Booleans are really  the worst way to do doors, windows ect. and should be used only when it is really necesary (for example on rounded surfaces)- booleans are mostly unpredictable, need too much faces to perform, so it slows render and dificult later tweaking with proportions.
The really best way, experienced for all that years I am working with B., is that you find on pictures of that tutorial I have mentioned in my last post:) It is best becaus it is fast (faster then booleans) and it leaves nice meshes withouth unecessary polys completelly under your control.

And for booleans- there is no Intersection button in edit buttons anymore since 2.25. Now there are full booleans operations which you will find under "w" key out of edit mode :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 03, 2004, 06:27:55 PM
And for booleans- there is no Intersection button in edit buttons anymore since 2.25. Now there are full booleans operations which you will find under "w" key out of edit mode :)

Uuuups :)

As I said, I never use them :)

But ... what tutorial did you mention?
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on January 03, 2004, 06:41:45 PM
is that you find on pictures of that tutorial I have mentioned in my last post:)


Errrr, unfontunately your last post is kinda...missing ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on January 03, 2004, 07:33:11 PM
Errrr, unfontunately your last post is kinda...missing ;)

I already wondered... Tol, could you please post your message again ? Only my quotes are in your post, something went wrong there... and I'd be quite interested in your opinions. :)

Nihil: Thanks for your comments, I'll answer later... I have to play around with it. (But as Tol already mentioned, the GUI changed there a lot)

Meanwhile I understood a lot of the UV topic in Blender, but I'll comment later.
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 09:49:23 AM
ORO? :o Where my beautiful post went? :'(

OK, so short version:
1.Tutorial- I meant this tutorial, it it in czech but there are pictures and it documents how I make windows and door at the houseīs wall.
http://www.grafika.cz/art/3d/blendermod3.html (http://www.grafika.cz/art/3d/blendermod3.html)

2.UV maping- yes it is fine method, but for your purpose it would be easier to use Add material button in Edit buttons (in 2.29- in newest versions this button can be elsewhere- I still donīt use versions above 2.29).This button adds material to selected faces-one mesh can have many different materials this way.

3.Take a look at www.elysiun.com (http://www.elysiun.com)- there are forum and its section Blender General is for beginners or anybody in need of help with Blender- you will find there army of experienced Blender users who will kill each others to be the first to help you ;D
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 04, 2004, 03:29:22 PM
If you have too much time some day, it would be very cool to have english translations of your tutorials ;)

(or if I have too much time i learn the czech language :) )

One off-topic question: Is Gamedesigner your main-job, or do you have "normal" job too? (what I want to know is - can you live from designing adventures?)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 05:27:32 PM
If you have too much time some day, it would be very cool to have english translations of your tutorials ;)

(or if I have too much time i learn the czech language :) )

One off-topic question: Is Gamedesigner your main-job, or do you have "normal" job too? (what I want to know is - can you live from designing adventures?)

I am afraid that I wonīt have so much time ever- there are abou 90 tutorials and articles I wrote. Furthemore I have no intetion to do this becase
1. There are about 1000 tutorials in english, mostly much better then mine. You will find them here:
http://www.nuance9.com/elysiun/Status_2.htm (http://www.nuance9.com/elysiun/Status_2.htm)

2. Tutorials I wrote doesnīt belong to me completely- I wrote them for Grafika and I canīt translate them without their permission. I have suggested to them to have both czech and english version, but I was rejected after sample articles becouse of "lack of english language abilities"

3.There is whole new interface in Blender , so my tutorials become in fact
useless

About two year back I had one of my tutorial on old Blender.nl site in english. Unfortunatelly it isnīt there anymore for some reason.

About my job- I am freelancer artist, hopefuly from next month I will be emploee of our game publisher.  I donīt know, if one can live from designin adventures, maybe someone really good, not my case though :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on January 04, 2004, 07:26:05 PM
Hi guest star! ;)

1.Tutorial- I meant this tutorial, it it in czech but there are pictures and it documents how I make windows and door at the houseīs wall.

Ok, that's the way I finally went, too. Although it's almost a miracle to me, how you finally came to the following house picture, but I got the idea of it. ;)

2.UV maping- yes it is fine method, but for your purpose it would be easier to use Add material button in Edit buttons (in 2.29- in newest versions this button can be elsewhere-

That's somehow the same, isn't it ? However - now it works exactly as I wanted it to, hooray!

3.Take a look at www.elysiun.com (http://www.elysiun.com)- there are forum

Meanwhile I'm there, that community is very large, indeed! Anyway thank you (and Nihil) for helping me on my first steps here. So in hours of work I finally build something that looks like a (my) room.... time to model the interior decoration now.  8)

Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 07:57:07 PM
Hi guest star! ;)


Hi global moderator! (btw- in Peregrius we salute each other  "hi bitch!" , every time, I see "Hi", canīt help to add bitch- have numbers humorous histories when I salute like this wrong person  ;) )

2.UV maping- yes it is fine method, but for your purpose it would be easier to use Add material button in Edit buttons (in 2.29- in newest versions this button can be elsewhere-

That's somehow the same, isn't it ? However - now it works exactly as I wanted it to, hooray!

Not at all- UV maping is method of precisely maping texture on object faces, while what I am talking about is feature adding whole new material on face. Texture is only part of material and you can have maximum 8 textures in one material(afecting for example bump, specularity, alpha chanel ect). For example one object with 3 materials can have even 24 textures, all of them UV maped.


Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 08:19:24 PM

Btw If you want se newest Ron Loo trailer made for Blender Conference 2003, follow this linkhttp://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=175135#175135 (http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=175135#175135)

Just one point- if you are writing for some game magazine or something- this is unofficial trailer, just for conference and Blender community, it is more Blender trailer then game trailer and althought I got permission from our publisher, I love peace and  dislike reporters so if you know any, donīt tell them about this  :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 04, 2004, 08:48:35 PM
Wow!
Very good looking graphics, but especially the character animation is very cool!
Have you done it in Blender or Poser?

But shame on you that you don't use Wintermute  ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 09:00:21 PM
Wow!
Very good looking graphics, but especially the character animation is very cool!
Have you done it in Blender or Poser?

But shame on you that you don't use Wintermute  ;)

Half- Base mesh of figure, riging and animation done in Poser, clothes modeling and uv maping done in Blender.

We use licenced engine AGDS, the same Black Mirror uses and it is provided to us by our publisher. Were I knew about WME when we were signing contract, I would chose it for sure (and I mean it), but I didnīt  :(
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 04, 2004, 09:13:09 PM

Half- Base mesh of figure, riging and animation done in Poser, clothes modeling and uv maping done in Blender.

I will try to do it all in Blender, the models themselves are no problem thanks to MakeHuman ... hopefully someone scripts MakeAnimation before I have to start learning how to use armatures :)

How exactly did you work - first applying clothes and textures to the model and then animate it in Poser or vice versa? (Is it possible to export the bones animation from poser to dxf or something?)

Quote
We use licenced engine AGDS, the same Black Mirror uses and it is provided to us by our publisher. Were I knew about WME when we were signing contract, I would chose it for sure (and I mean it), but I didnīt  :(

Well, then you have a good reason for making Ron Loo 2 when you have finished part 1  ;)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on January 04, 2004, 09:23:28 PM

Half- Base mesh of figure, riging and animation done in Poser, clothes modeling and uv maping done in Blender.

I will try to do it all in Blender, the models themselves are no problem thanks to MakeHuman ... hopefully someone scripts MakeAnimation before I have to start learning how to use armatures :)

How exactly did you work - first applying clothes and textures to the model and then animate it in Poser or vice versa? (Is it possible to export the bones animation from poser to dxf or something?)

Quote
We use licenced engine AGDS, the same Black Mirror uses and it is provided to us by our publisher. Were I knew about WME when we were signing contract, I would chose it for sure (and I mean it), but I didnīt  :(

Well, then you have a good reason for making Ron Loo 2 when you have finished part 1  ;)

First I export base figure mesh from Poser to Blender, there I model clothes, UV map them and export them back to Poser.There I rig clothes, apply them on figure and animate.
On the other hands- final Ron Loo animatons will be don different way maybe as we hopefully have new animator in team, so I wonīt have to do them this painfull way.

As fo Ron Loo2- well, I know that it will sound like Matrix trilogy kidding, but storyline for Ron Loo 2 is prepared for almost 2 years now :)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on January 05, 2004, 08:04:58 AM
As fo Ron Loo2- well, I know that it will sound like Matrix trilogy kidding, but storyline for Ron Loo 2 is prepared for almost 2 years now :)

Hehe, then hopefully Ron Loo 2 will be better than Matrix 2 ... but I don't see a big problem there, because it would be a hard task to do something more worse than Matrix 2  :D
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on February 03, 2004, 08:04:12 PM
Little update: Blender 2.32 has been released, with a lot of cool features like Yafray-Support, new im- and export-features and so on.

Looks promising :-)
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on April 05, 2004, 04:13:10 PM
I just received the Blender 2.3 Guide. It looks great!
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on April 05, 2004, 10:28:14 PM
I just received the Blender 2.3 Guide. It looks great!

I'll wait for the second release that is going to come soon. I read about the bad (too bright ?) pictures in it ?!
Title: Re:Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on April 06, 2004, 04:18:16 PM
Yeah, it has too bright pictures but it's in a readable state... I was unlucky enough to order it 1 day before the news about the bright images...  :(

But it's still a great (and huge) book. I hightly recommend it to anyone that is interested in blender.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on May 30, 2004, 09:39:25 PM
Oh, 3d has it's own topic  :D I have been interested in 3d about 5 months. I use TrueSpace 6.5 (it's commercial product). I tried Blender when I started, but user interface was too difficult in my opinion.

http://www.caligari.com/

3d is very useful when doing games. I don't have to do graphics by hand, I'm not very good on that.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: gfx johnny on May 30, 2004, 10:52:06 PM
Quote
3d is very useful when doing games. I don't have to do graphics by hand, I'm not very good on that.
Same here - it guess its the main reason for me to learn about 3d graphics, because i've got so many ideas that i want to realize, but cant draw, neither.

I think you can get some old version of Truespace for free, its nice, though not as powerful as Blender (this particular version), but easier to handle.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on June 01, 2004, 03:45:57 PM
I think you can get some old version of Truespace for free, its nice, though not as powerful as Blender (this particular version), but easier to handle.

In my opinion, that old version of TrueSpace is awful (okay, it's six years old  :P). That 6.5 which I have is much better. It's more effective than Blender.

Oh, and I just started with Maya 6  :D (Most powerful 3d-software on market). I can do really amazing mark with it when I learn to use it well. 
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: gfx johnny on June 01, 2004, 08:14:50 PM
Quote
Most powerful 3d-software on market
I wouldn't say so... of course Maya is powerful, and i dont know if other apps are better, but i guess most well known 3d apps are quite the same nowadays.

Of course your new version of Truespace is better than old ones :)  But its for free, so perhaps a reason to look into it (not for you, obvious). I know the PL Edition of Maya, but if you want to use it for commercial things or even for an adventure, you had to spend a lot of money (i think the PL Edition has its pictures watermarked?).

Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: McCoy on June 01, 2004, 09:38:21 PM
I think Maya is the most powerful one for animating, but for modelling there are better apps out there I think...
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 01, 2004, 11:14:00 PM
I think you can get some old version of Truespace for free, its nice, though not as powerful as Blender (this particular version), but easier to handle.

In my opinion, that old version of TrueSpace is awful (okay, it's six years old  :P). That 6.5 which I have is much better. It's more effective than Blender.

Heh, I donīt understand here- few posts ago you wrote that you couldnīt get trough Blender interface and now you compare it with TrueSpace? I donīt think that you can do it as you know nothing about how effective Blender is ;) Yes, its interface is different to another ones, but is very effective in terms of fast, yet quality work. I was forced to do  one animated short  (about 2 minutes long) in Truespace (ver.5 maybe?) for my friend and would never deliberately put my hands on this soft. But I wonīt say that TrueSpace is ineffective- it just doesnīt  work for me. Say that Blender doesnīt work for you but donīt say it is less effective than TrueSpace/Maya/Max ect. Unless you know both sofware at least on intermediate level :)


Oh, and I just started with Maya 6  :D (Most powerful 3d-software on market). I can do really amazing mark with it when I learn to use it well. 

Most powerful 3d software on market? Who says that? Itīs  not in the tool, it is in artist ;) Most of 3D apps nowadays offers the same only with different interface and of course for different price-there is nothing you can do in Maya which is impossible to do in Cinema 4D, 3DS Max and even in Blender (which still need to use external renderer for this though)
Btw First Myst game was done with low-end software Strata 3D, in version which is now for free too. And it was in "age of 3D Studio" , the "most powerful 3D-software on market"   ;D
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: gfx johnny on June 02, 2004, 07:18:03 AM
I guess its always the same thing. Think about Photoshop, everyone and his oncle say, its the best graphic app out there. But its wrong. I have worked with Photoshop and other apps (like Photopaint for example), and Photoshop is perhaps not worse than other apps, but today there are graphic apps which are as good.

I dont want to work with Blender, because i wasnt able to see through the control jungle ;) For example, i wanted to import some well known files (.3ds, .obj), and i had to install a plugin, and activate it with python or something like that - the tutorial was to difficult for me, i wasnt able to manage it and got several error messages (not included in the tut). The external rendering process with yafray (i think that was the name) was also not an easy thing. So, i maybe too stupid to use Blender, but nevertheless i know its powerful.   

Btw: Happy belated Birthday, Tol! :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on June 02, 2004, 09:01:05 AM
Sorry Tol if I got you angry  :-[ Of course those are only my opinions. And no, I don't think Blender is ineffective. I said I don't like it's user interface. I have seen how amazing work it does. By the way, I think it's the best free 3d-program. That's too only my opinion.

And about Maya. Okay, I said that little hastily.

We all want to defend our favourite programs so that's why we have some arguing  :-\
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 02, 2004, 09:02:11 AM
I guess its always the same thing. Think about Photoshop, everyone and his oncle say, its the best graphic app out there. But its wrong. I have worked with Photoshop and other apps (like Photopaint for example), and Photoshop is perhaps not worse than other apps, but today there are graphic apps which are as good.

I dont want to work with Blender, because i wasnt able to see through the control jungle ;) For example, i wanted to import some well known files (.3ds, .obj), and i had to install a plugin, and activate it with python or something like that - the tutorial was to difficult for me, i wasnt able to manage it and got several error messages (not included in the tut). The external rendering process with yafray (i think that was the name) was also not an easy thing. So, i maybe too stupid to use Blender, but nevertheless i know its powerful.   

Btw: Happy belated Birthday, Tol! :)

Photoshop vs other apps- yes, that is exactly the point:) Agree

Blender- just for your information- from version 2.30, which is about half year old now, there is new interface which is much more friendly to newbies. Nearly all functions are available via menu, not only by short cuts as before :) It is even possible to integrate import/export python scripts right into Blender, so you can use them from File-Import pop up menu and there are several formats available now (not 3DS or OBJ though, for this you still need to use script) :)
External rendering via Yafray- well, I never used it and most of top blenderists like @ndy or Endi (he won last www.3Dluvr.com contest with Blender by the way :D ) use it also very ralely or never. Blender has its own, pretty good,  raytracing renderer now with Ambient Occlusion (with fake HDRI options too) to simulate radiosity (or it has radiosity as well), Area lights , ect.  so there are no much reason to use Yafray unless you are targeting photorealism, which is unwanted in adventure games imho ;D

As for my birthday-  thank you :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on June 02, 2004, 09:08:14 AM
I go immediately download Blender again. Maybe I was too harsh.

EDIT: Okay, now I try to do this little introduction tutorial to understand these controls...
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 02, 2004, 09:10:40 AM
Sorry Tol if I got you angry  :-[ Of course those are only my opinions. And no, I don't think Blender is ineffective. I said I don't like it's user interface. I have seen how amazing work it does. By the way, I think it's the best free 3d-program. That's too only my opinion.

And about Maya. Okay, I said that little hastily.

We all want to defend our favourite programs so that's why we have some arguing  :-\

Well, then I have to say sorry here if you got impression that I  am angry, I am not, I just wrote clarification about Blender and about "most powerful app". Most of begginers do this mistake (I did too ;) ) to claim that some app is the best, this app is better then another... that is way to hell , because you then tend to think that is is about tool, but it is not.  It is in you, in your abilities of observing of real world, your experience with conceps making, ballance, composition...the list goes on :) All this you can learn through years of hard work and it really doesnīt matter, if you use Maya or Blender or whathever app you got your hands on :)

Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on June 02, 2004, 09:29:07 AM
Now I wonder, why I didn't like Blender's user interface. It doesn't look so impossible after all  :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Jerrot on June 07, 2004, 11:05:46 AM
Now I wonder, why I didn't like Blender's user interface. It doesn't look so impossible after all  :)

Trust me, I'm NO linux freak, I like Windows and I love normal styled GUIs like they are used by 3ds ! The only reason to take a second (and third... and fourth... I always removed it again after seeing the first screen, so I understand your first reaction very well!) look into Blender was the reason - it's completely free.

But now - I love it ! I don't want any other GUI. It's good, that all the shortcuts found their way into graphical menus, but once you got used to the most importants shortcuts and key-mouse combinations, you use it that intutive and are able to model things incredibly fast, that you don't care about them anymore anyway. And I'm the last person who I'd expect this to say. ;)

EDIT: Ugh, your avatar icon is... uhm... LARGE! :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 11:49:14 AM
It definately takes time to understand the interface, especially if you are used to easy-click-things - I worked with Bryce before starting with blender, that was a real cultural shock for me :-)

But now I like the Interface very much, it still has some missing features (what I mostly miss is multi-monitor-support), but the Blender-development is so fast that I'm sure all the things now missing will come soon.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 07, 2004, 12:02:01 PM
It definately takes time to understand the interface, especially if you are used to easy-click-things - I worked with Bryce before starting with blender, that was a real cultural shock for me :-)

But now I like the Interface very much, it still has some missing features (what I mostly miss is multi-monitor-support), but the Blender-development is so fast that I'm sure all the things now missing will come soon.

I am glad that I am not the only one who cares for multimonitor support in Blender community:) Btw there is such thing, try to search Elysiun. com and blender.org forums, I saw that there is way to have buttons on second monitor. But it has still its limitations though :(
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 12:24:58 PM
I searched for it a while ago but didn't find anything ... I have to look again :-)

But it's really a must-have I think because it makes working with apps like this MUCH easier ... if only the material and render buttons could be on the second monitor it would be cool for me.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 07, 2004, 12:35:45 PM
I searched for it a while ago but didn't find anything ... I have to look again :-)

But it's really a must-have I think because it makes working with apps like this MUCH easier ... if only the material and render buttons could be on the second monitor it would be cool for me.

This is imo possible, what is impossible yet and pisses me is that you canīt heve render window on secondary monitor:(
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 12:43:16 PM
Possible with a normal build? Or do you need some special version or a plugin?

Quote
what is impossible yet and pisses me is that you canīt heve render window on secondary monitor:(

Hm ... you can move it to the second monitor, or do you mean having it automatically there?

Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 07, 2004, 12:46:18 PM
Possible with a normal build? Or do you need some special version or a plugin?
Dunno, youīll have to find that thread about it:)

Quote
Hm ... you can move it to the second monitor, or do you mean having it automatically there?
Exactly, I would like to have it automatically here- it would save me a lot time during render tuning when I render picture many times in short period :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 12:49:08 PM
Dunno, youīll have to find that thread about it:)

Ok, I search for it :-)

Quote
Exactly, I would like to have it automatically here- it would save me a lot time during render tuning when I render picture many times in short period :)

That's indeed not possible ... we should start an online-petition for it :-)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 07, 2004, 12:53:18 PM


That's indeed not possible ... we should start an online-petition for it :-)

We will be found to be antisocial kapitalists whom one monitor is not enought like to most of users in universe ;D
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 12:55:21 PM
*lol*

That's true ... especially in the Blender communitiy where even a "Undo"-Feature is too prolly for the people :-)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on June 07, 2004, 12:58:27 PM
*lol*

That's true ... especially in the Blender communitiy where even a "Undo"-Feature is too prolly for the people :-)
Well, it took only few yers to finally have that undo, so it is only matter of patience ;D
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Mnemonic on June 07, 2004, 01:10:26 PM
We will be found to be antisocial kapitalists whom one monitor is not enought like to most of users in universe ;D

Indeed! Antisocial kapitalists with large tables ;D
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on June 07, 2004, 01:11:48 PM
TFT-Displays don't need large tables  ;D
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on June 07, 2004, 02:04:44 PM
We will be found to be antisocial kapitalists whom one monitor is not enought like to most of users in universe ;D

Indeed! Antisocial kapitalists with large tables ;D

I want to buy a second monitor because my 19inches one is just not enough for my job... And you know that I AM MILES AWAY from being a "kapitalist".  ;)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: FinnishBoy on June 07, 2004, 07:51:17 PM
EDIT: Ugh, your avatar icon is... uhm... LARGE! :)

Oh, sorry. Now it's okay  ;)
Title: Blender for gaming
Post by: case on September 10, 2004, 12:26:35 PM
You can create games with blender!

It has a built in game engine in the recent release, which was returned after it was open sourced.

Hurrah for blender! Now I need to learn it, all I can do it resize adn rotate that damn cube...

 ::hijack
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on November 30, 2004, 11:31:29 PM
As the 3d-actors are reality now this might become interesting for Blender-users:

http://guinness.cs.stevens-tech.edu/~acorriga/blender/ (Milkshape-import)

http://www.elysiun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30004 (Milkshape-export)

I haven't tested both of them though, and now I go to bed :-)

Maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Martin on December 02, 2004, 08:59:01 PM
please share the results ;), I would really prefer to make the models in blender
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: odnorf on December 02, 2004, 10:12:03 PM
@Martin
You can still make the models in blender or any other program you like. You can export them in a format milkshape can ready and then export them again in milkshape format. Those plugins (if the work 100%, which doesn't seem from what I've read) can only speed up the development.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 02, 2004, 11:09:27 PM
There isnÂīt problem to export mesh itself from Blender actually, what I am curious is how these Milkshape exporters will deal with armatures animation and furthemore whether and how it will be capable of converting animation via IK solvers into straight FW bones movement as I presume that WME doesnÂīt handle IK yet (and maybe there is no reason for engine to handle them at all).
As far I know, only the Direct X format exporter in Blender can do this (havenÂīt tested it yet though), if can, than it should be relatively straight way from Blender to WME as Milkshape can import Direct X animation, If I am not mistaken.

What I try  to say in short is-maybe those Milkshape exporter isnÂīt the only way how to get your animated characters from Blender to WME  as there are still in very early stage of development... :)
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 03, 2004, 09:04:48 AM
I still hadn't time to try out the exporter, but according to the thread at Elysiun the author is still working an animation-export as they came out upside down after opening them in Milkshape.

My idea behind was btw not to export them in Milkshape-format to open them there, but not to have to use Milkshape finally - if the exporter works fully someday, there should be no reason we have to use Milkshape, or am I wrong?
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Martin on December 03, 2004, 04:20:56 PM
Quote
My idea behind was btw not to export them in Milkshape-format to open them there, but not to have to use Milkshape finally - if the exporter works fully someday, there should be no reason we have to use Milkshape, or am I wrong?

That was exactly my idea too... :)

Since we're discussing exporting and importing in blender, does anyone know of a good 3ds importer for blender, one that will import the materials also? At the moment I convert .3ds to radiosity (.radio) and then I import them in blender, but the materials are lost in the process.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 03, 2004, 09:02:21 PM
Haven't checked 3ds import, but for .obj it's necessary that both object and textures are in the same directory, otherwise they don't get imported - maybe the same problem here?

And besides that, the 3ds importer that was integrated in Blender until 2.32 (at least, only have that and 2.35 installed at the moment) does import the textures as well. I have no idea why they kicked it out now, but the older BLender-versions should still be available on the website.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Martin on December 03, 2004, 10:24:07 PM
Ok, do you know any 3ds to obj converter? I have one, but after the file gets converted blender gives errors and doesn't want to import the obj.  >:(
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: gfx johnny on December 03, 2004, 10:47:34 PM
I have two suggestions for converting 3ds files to obj: you could use the well known free habware plugin (http://www.habware.at), or try your luck with Wings3d (http://www.wings3d.com/), also a free modeler (can import/export 3ds and obj files).

But i don't know if blender will read the results without problems. I have no problems converting files between 3ds and obj and then using apps like 3dsmax, Wings3d and Zbrush (with Materials).
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Nihil on December 03, 2004, 10:57:39 PM
I used Crossroads some time ago, but I had some problems with it ... can't remember which though. Here is the link: http://www.europa.com/~keithr/crossroads/ (seems like it hasn't been updated for ages)

What errors does Blender give on the import of obj-files?
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: gfx johnny on December 03, 2004, 11:19:09 PM
I had problems with crossoads, too. My models were destroyed after importing, tried a lot some time ago, but wasn't able to achieve anything. Don't know if i made mistakes though.
Title: Re: Blender (modeling, animation, rendering)
Post by: Tol on December 04, 2004, 12:17:32 AM
Ok, do you know any 3ds to obj converter? I have one, but after the file gets converted blender gives errors and doesn't want to import the obj.  >:(

Maybe there is problem elsewhere then in that script or Crossroads - which version of Blender do you use? Do you use integrated sript of OBJ import/export or some external? Do you have Python instaled and paths set corectly ?  I ask becaouse I use this obj i/e quite often and works just fine even with files converted with Crossroads (althought from time to time I have troubles too) :)